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Women's Only Health Club

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by ethics, May 21, 2003.

  1. pcysmith

    pcysmith Paula

    Violet, I was the fist one to step up with an "aye" when Ethics asked if we thought it was okay for men to have men-only health clubs. I have no problems with that. I agree with you that certain women's groups are making rediculous demands to be included in everything that men are included in. At least I think that is what you said. As for biker, if he insists that men and women lookat one another in the same way, well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. One thing that maybe I'm not being clear about is that I'm not a rabid women's libber at all. In fact that all started when I was home raising my kids and I got all kinds of shit about not having a career. Well my kids turned out incredibly well. Those biddies always left a bad taste in my mouth.
     
  2. cdw

    cdw Ahhhh...the good life.

    Sure! If he wants to play on the WNBA which will bring him no prestige whatsoever and for a hell of a lot less money than he's made since probably his high school years, send him on over.
    Might make the league some money and attention, which it desperatly needs because it's going broke and may end soon.
    Works for me!
     
  3. cdw

    cdw Ahhhh...the good life.

    I have never understood this. Ever. I'm sorry you had to deal with that kind of mentality. It's a shame that sometimes it's the women that hurt each other. Truly.
     
  4. Violet1966

    Violet1966 Stand and Deliver Staff Member


    Ohhhhhhh I'm kinda lost in this thread without going back and tracing every single post when addressing specific people, so I'm sorry if I sounded like I was trying to explain something to you like maybe you didn't understand it or something. I wasn't aware that you had agreed earlier in the thread either. Just too long to look back on things with this one. LOL And yeah certain women's groups do make rediculous demands...we do agree and that was what I said. Come on...you should be able to understand me by now? ;) LOL

    As for the not being a women's libber and all...I know what you mean. I'm not into it on that level either and feel great about my role as a stay at home mom. Hope my kids turn out good too ;)

    As for addressing the fact that men and women are different...I agree. We are different from men and have different needs but I wouldn't call it weakness like some people have said.
     
  5. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    I think this thread is kind of sbsurd. How wisconsin got itself in the position where same-sex health clubs were illegal is interesting, but that they changed it is good. I side with the ladies here. Let them have their exclusive club where they can be comfortable. Doesn't hurt anybody.

    I am not an expert on social or specialized clubs, never having belonged to one. I am even further removed from the world of health clubs and country clubs, since I consider them to be dens of iniquity, suitable for use only by perverts of some sort. :) But I have had some contact with some clubs, since friends belong. And I have some sense of public policy and what makes sense.

    I have followed this thread with amusement. I will not comment on specific posts -- that might be viewed as inflamatory, which is not what I desire --but will note a couple of the general claims that have been made or implied and put out some facts and thoughts. My intent is to shed light rather than heat. :)

    1) First let's discuss discrimination in general. That word is thrown around a bit and it is assumed to be bad, always wrong. That is not so. A primary definition (from OED) is:

    In other words, to tell the difference between shit and shoe polish is discrimination. Recognizing differences. I have worked very hard to be aqble to discriminate among wines, between cooking skills, and many other things. I consider that important and, since it hurts nobody else, it is none of anybody else's business.

    Yes, discrimination can be bad -- racial, sexist, ethnic, etc., in forms that exclude to hurt, to put down, to otherwise be socially divisive while producing nothing socially useful. These forms often are forbiddn by law or other rules. But pure discrimination, recognizing the differences between different things and treating the different things differently where the different treatment is appropriate is not, to my knowledge, banned anywhere in any way.

    Women and men are different in many ways. That is why there are separate facilities for performing bodily functions. (Some places do have unisex toilets but they are used by the different sexes sequentially, not simultaneously.) Making different arrangements for women for some things does reflect discrimination, but not a bad form of discrimination. It is simply recognizing differences and applying different treatment appropriate to the character of things. Seems to me that if women want to exercise their bodies freely, without putting on a girlie show for men, for a variety of what I consider good reasons, allowing that is not a bad thing and not allowing it is cruel and unnecessary, and serves no purpose.


    2) It is claimed that allowing women to have female only athletic clubs is terrible because men are not allowed to have men's clubs and/or are denied the right to associate with whom they want.

    There are no men's clubs? Huh? Here is a little list. Took no time at all to compile it, and there are thousands more, of all sorts.

    Are there women's clubs? Here's another little list. Again, there are thousands more.

    What about ethnic clubs? It has been said that one cannot have an ethnically segregated organization. Another little list.

    These are all NYU student organiations -- I got too lazy to look further.
    * Arab Student United
    * Black & Latino Business Student Association
    * Black Students Science Organization
    * Haitian American Students Association
    * Latter-Day Saint Students Association

    I am sure that there also are religeous organizations for Catholics, Protestants, etc. An Irish organization puts on the St. Patr9ick's Day Parade and sponsors a big dinner annually. I cannot recall the name of the organization for sure but think it was the Friendly Sons of Saint Patrick. I attended the dinner a few times as guest of a member and the only women and minority folk in the room were carrying the trays.

    All of these organizations discriminatre. So what? The different treatment meted out to different types of people is not necessarily bad. I think it makes sense to keep Christians out of the Association for Jewish women, to keep Jews out of the Arab Student United, etc. Those criteria for discrimination are relevant to the purposes of the organization and that purpose is (presumeably) not illegal or otherwise objectionable.

    And what about White organizations? Here I did very little research so my list is even smaller. Blacks not allowed in these. Maybe there are some harmless white-only organizations, but these are not them These are the kind of organizations the exist to harm another group one way or another -- I think the days of killing them are over, but lots of other damage can be done. And these are the kinds of organizations that give discrimination a bad name.

    KKK
    Conservative Citizen's Council (political descendant of white Citizen's Council)
    Various crackpot groups -- Aryan Nation and the like..


    What about gay and lesbian organizations? I did not look for those but have seen a gay band perform at some local event, and heard a gay glee club singing. I have mentioned Dykes on Bikes elsewhere -- a lesbian motorcycle gang (or club:)) There is a big Gay and Lesbian community center in my old neighborhood. And I am sure there are many others.

    So -- Gee whiz, there are all sorts of specialized organizations that discriminate. You have to be able to sing to be in a glee club, you have to be a woman to join Colony and a man to join Knickerbocker, etc. You have to be of Irish descent to belong to the Friendly Sons. And on and on. Big goddam deal.

    Enough.

    If the ladies want their own health club for the solid reasons given, fine. It is none of our business, guys. It only might become our business if the purpose of the club was to promote a revolution.
    :thumbsup:
     
  6. cdw

    cdw Ahhhh...the good life.

    Isn't he cute? I love him. rofl
     
  7. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    I think you are confusing posts now, because I've yet to mention any PGA or sports clubs or women competing.
     
  8. Neo

    Neo Banned

    It this thread was a boxing match, somebody would stop it.
     
  9. Fiona

    Fiona Veteran Member

    exactly, i just came in because i saw it has 287 replies... YEESH!
     
  10. Fiona

    Fiona Veteran Member

    :thumbsup: i second that!
     
  11. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    This thread is now in competition with another -- maybe we should merge them. I'll start.

    99 bottles of beer on the wall.
    someone drank one
    998 bottles of beer on the wall. :)
     
  12. Fiona

    Fiona Veteran Member

    rofl - good one robert
     
  13. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Well, I've curtailed my participation here to barely even stopping by, and I see people are at each other's throats.

    I guess I wasn't the rogue element some people thought I was, after all. ;)

    SM
     
  14. JustTrolling

    JustTrolling Banned

    Double standard? nope. Twisting facts and Lots of whining? Yup.
     
  15. cdw

    cdw Ahhhh...the good life.

    Blame Ethics. He started it. ETHICS!!! rofl
     
  16. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

     

     

    Actually, you forgot why women would be included in the bill. Should I tell you or will you understand?

    Hint: I've mentioned it a few posts back.
     
  17. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Seems that there are smart politicians after all:

     

    Sen. Judy Robson opposed the bill, fearing someone could use the definition to justify a men-only golf course or similar venture.

    She said the legislation opens the door to discrimination and creates the possibility it will spread to other public accommodations.

    "Women have fought for years to end gender discrimination, especially in athletics," Robson said. "Now that we have arrived at almost full equality, this could set us back."

    Source

     
     
  18. pcysmith

    pcysmith Paula

    Hehe...You are too funny! I was thinking about that earlier. I guess this horse is good and dead.:)
     
  19. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    But we can keep on beating it.
     
  20. BigDeputyDog

    BigDeputyDog Straight Shootin Admin Staff Member

    Did someone call for this????? :nut:

    BDD... :{)
     

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