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Who should have "rights" in this case?

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Biker, Jan 13, 2003.

  1. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    This is one I've wrestled with for quite some time and can't really come up with an answer that would be good for everyone concerned. Most states now have some type of registry for sex offenders, and some communities actually publish the names of those moving into their community. <a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/857750.asp?0dm=N2ACN" target="blank">This story</a> illustrates what the offender goes through on a daily basis.

    Some would say that the offender gets what he deserves in this case. But is this really true? After all, he's already served his debt to society, and should be allowed to get his life back on an even keel.

    As a father, I want to know who lives in my neighborhood that can be a threat to my kids. Yet, there's a part of me that wonders if the individual is still serving an unfair sentence that will never be finished.
     
  2. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    No more unfair than the woman/child he raped having to live with it for the rest of <b>their</b> lives.
     
  3. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    If the individual had committed any other crime (like murder) and been released, they would not have the attention that sex offenders get. There's a double standard here that I have a hard time rationalizing as being OK.
     
  4. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    The crime doesn't go away just because he did his time. His crime was rape along with kidnapping a 10 year old girl. His intentions towards the 10 year old weren't made clear by the article, but I'll assume the worst.

    I'd like to say that a convition for a sex crime should guarantee lwop, but I don't have that much faith in the judicial system to insure that confessions aren't beaten or otherwise coerced out of people.

    In the interim, maybe a community for released rapists should be set up out in the Nevada desert. Set up shops for them work in and the only transportation in is by bus and secure trucks are arranged to get their goods out...No escape, no harm to anyone else and no chance of repeat offenses.

    Pedophiles, since we can't kill them, should never be allowed freedom, as there's a substantial amount of data that shows they are not capable of being rehabilitated.

    If we are questioning whether they're being unfairly harassed because they've paid their debt to society, then quite possibly the debt they're required to pay isn't sufficient.
     
  5. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    So are we saying that sex crimes are far worse than murder, and as such, should carry this harsher penalty, even after serving their sentence?
     
  6. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    Absolutely.
     
  7. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    I'm saying that pedophilia is on par with First Degree murder and special circumstances, qualifying for the death penalty. Violent rape, not to be confused with withdrawal of consent, should result in permanent ostracization. Again, if we're questioning further punishment for this crime, then perhaps the initial punishment isn't enough.
     
  8. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    So regardless of what our legal system has determined is a just punishment, society can usurp that judgement and continue to punish?

    If society feels that a law is unjust, should not society take action to ensure the law is changed, rather than taking the law into their own hands?
     
  9. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    Well, in this instance, it would seem that it wasn't so much society that chose this path as much as it was those sworn to uphold the law and the officers of the court themselves...the various PD's, the AG's and the DA's.

    Other than that, I don't think anyone took the law into their own hands, but rather, they used the existing laws and acted in a manner that was permissable within it.

    Now, if you're asking whether it was 'right' for communities to operate in this manner...using existing legal information sources to accomplish what they have, I don't have an answer for that, other than what I've stated. I know that if I was presented with the dilemma of allowing a rapist or a pedophile the opportunity to show they've changed by putting my family at risk, I'd do the exact same thing. I have far more to do and worry about than whether someone of this caliber is being given a fair break, and just how much of my own family's safety I would sacrifice to see that it happened.
     
  10. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    It's not really a matter of continuing to "punish" the rapist. It's a matter of continuing to protect the public from these kinds of freaks.

    As a low-life who chose to rape, he must live with that decision and deal with the consequences he put on himself.

    As a law-abiding citizen, I have not taken any rights from him. He gave them up freely and now I have the right to know when a freak like this moves into my neighborhood.
     
  11. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    It seems to me we're applying a double standard here, and it's being done more and more. Society HAS chosen this path (by it's support of Megan's Law) and is pretty much turning a blind eye to what is happening here.

    On one hand, I don't agree with the actions that are being taken. The law should be applied equally in all situations (I know, utopian thinking there), and it isn't being done in cases of sex offenders. As with all crimes, there are cases where the individual ISN'T guilty (railroaded by ex wife, false allegations, etc.) and now they have to live with the stigma and be submitted to the harrassment by the community.

    Yes, as a father, I want to know who's living in my neighborhood. But I have some serious reservations at how we allow certain individuals to be treated because of a crime they have comitted. Even after they've served their debt to society in the eyes of the law.
     
  12. Advocat

    Advocat Viral Memes a Speciality Staff Member

    Society, but not the law as of yet, has recognized that many sex offenders cannot help their impulses (peodophilia being the standard example), as admitted by the perps themselves and proven by psychological study -- the most that can be done is give them counseling to help them learn to control their impulses. Many admit that they know they will reoffend when released from prision.

    Given this propensity, it only makes sense to track them.

    Murderers, unless they're insane, serial killers or mass murderers, usually kill only once, under a specific set of circumstances. Those who do kill repeatedly, or commit mass murder, receive such long sentences they'll never see the light of day again anyways.
     
  13. RRedline

    RRedline Veteran MMember

    I am on the unpopular side of the fence with this issue. I feel that once your time is served, your punishment should be over. If the state(s) feel that he is a threat to other people, then why was he released?

    And why is pedophilia being discussed? The article said that he was charged with "assault with intent to kidnap a 10-year-old girl." It didn't state that he sexually assaulted her.

    By treating this man the way he has been treated, he is guaranteed to end up back in prison. If that's where the authorities want him, then he should not have been released in the first place.

    Yes, I know that rape and assault are horrible crimes. But nineteen years is also a very horrible punishment. I couldn't imagine losing my freedom today, and not getting it back until the year 2022. I think I'd rather be put down by lethal injection. And I'm sure that some of our more blood-thirsty posters in here would like for David Siebers to have been put down twenty years ago.
     
  14. Techie2000

    Techie2000 The crowd would sing:

    I personally feel that if the offendor is still considered a threat to society s/he should be kept in prison until s/he is no longer considered a threat.
     
  15. FrankF

    FrankF #55170-054

    Rapists, child molesters, and pedophiles are predators. Most cannot be reformed, and they sure as shit should not have any right to secretly live anywhere close to where I and my children live.

    They prey on children. Most children are not equipped to deal with them... not even a chance... that is why they prey on children in the first place.

    BTW... I had my house painted three years ago by a paroled drug dealer. He is a friend who did three years in prison for that... and house painting was also his profession before. Maybe not relevant to the discussion... except to say that I have to draw the line somewhere. I will hire a former drug dealer to paint my house... but never a child molestor.
     
  16. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    So they don't deserve a chance to get their life back in order and lead a normal life?
     
  17. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    This is exactly right.

    The right of society to be protected outweighs the right of the convicted criminal to not be disclosed.

    To say he's served his sentence isn't exactly correct. His sentence is what he served in prison <B>and</B> being included in the registry.

    Of course, he has the option of moving, and refusal to disclose... then being returned to the place he really belongs. His release back into society is contingent on his being included in the registry. Else back in he goes.

    This action simply acknowledges that sexual predators are not often rehabilitated, but strongarmed into compliance.
     
  18. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    I'm sorry people, but until you've lived it first hand you can't really appreciate what kind of trash these degenerates are. This isn't shoplifing or burglary. You can replace property. I've had two of my family members raped, and one murdered. A woman (and child's) pain doesn't end when the sicko is locked up. Their biggest fear is when he gets out. Put yourselves in the victim or victim's family place.

    Biker and RR, I know you have family you'd do anything to protect from this stuff. It's not always possible. I hope it nevers happens to any of your loved ones, but would you want the piece of crap able to move about without anyone knowing? Well, each of these guys has messed up with someone else's mother, wife, son or daughter. It's easy to say it'll never happen to my family. Sometimes it does.

    I'm sorry. If they don't care how they're f**king up someone's life, then maybe they'll care about how their life will be f**ked up. At any rate, one strike and your out as far as I'm concerned. I would never hurt another human being this way, and I have no compassion for those that would.
     
  19. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    Biker, the reason society supports Megan's law is because studies have shown us that sex offendors (espiecially when offendors who target children) are usually REPEAT offendors. And now only are they repeat offendors, but each time they committ the crime, it's a little more violent than the last. Megan's law exists because statistically, sex offendors never rehabilitate in prisons.

    It may not be fair, but you know what? Life isn't fair. It wasn't fair to the woman who was raped in front of an audience, and it wasn't fair to the 10 year old child this man victimized and who still have to live with this, for the rest of their lives.

    We as a society would love nothing more than to embrace rehabilitated sex offendors - if they existed. But there really is no such thing. He's a constant threat. The fact that he's being hounded by authorities wherever he goes, however, is just making him more of a ticking time bomb. The more stressed out he gets, the more he's likely to rape again. And society has the right to protect itself.

    We're constantly bitching about how law enforcement doesn't protect us. Well, here's a case where law enforcement is doing just that - making sure a convicted felon who is likely to strike again doesn't do that. And they're doing it all well within the law. Society is tired of letting itself get victimized. Let the felons take it up the ass for once.
     
  20. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    I guess my point is if the person is going to get hounded for the rest of his days, let's change the law and just keep them in prison. Either way, they're not going to have much of a life.
     

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