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Who Decides Merit?

Discussion in 'Society and Culture' started by ShinyTop, Jul 30, 2018.

  1. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

  2. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Why don't we ask Canada as that's exactly what their immigration system is based on... merit.
    Allene likes this.
  3. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    I did a search on this board of posts by me about immigration. I did not find the exact post I was trying to but found so many discussions about this same subject. I read through many of the threads and found no magic solutions. At least none that were attempted. But I did find a post from 2007 by that erudite member, Shinytop, whose 2007 post reflects my thought on American culture, on immigration's contribution.

    "Your posts glorifies our culture and holds it above some cultures of the world where our current burden of illegal immigrants comes from, but you are only partly right in your assessments. Nobody here, well almost nobody, is defending illegal immigration. Most here want to sort through, keep the ones we need and/or make all return to their native land and use legal means and undergo scrutiny before being allowed here.
    But the American culture we all know and love is a growing beast. It has been growing and changing, maturing (some will disagree) for over 200 years. And its strengths and weaknesses are a result of that. We brag about freedoms won but downplay how long it took for all of our people to enjoy all those freedoms. We brag about our wealth and downplay the homeless and poor in our society. We brag about way we attempt to help the helpless and then we so burden them that they are generation after generation of welfare people.

    When we decide to stop all immigration, when we demand that only immigrants with our way of thinking are allowed in the beast that is American culture will be tamed and will begin its downfall. The richness of our society, our culture is that it is always changing ... and much of that change comes from immigrants.

    We need to have a tough immigration policy that makes it easy for those we want to join us and we need to be selective. But not selective by race or culture, we need to let new blood in and the culture to continue to mature. With luck a new American culture can find a way to feed and heal all of its citizens without taking away the wealth of the middle class, with luck a new American culture will lead Planet Earth to the stars. But build impregnable barriers to immigration, be so selective there is no yeast in the batter and we will surely slide into the back pages of history."

    Damn, I was both very wise and very naive.

    Leon, I was not purposely avoiding your question. I have a general feeling that there is little comparison between the two countries that would suggest to either they adopt the immigration policy of the other. Population size has a bearing on the ability to absorb immigration. Current culture has a huge bearing. Although I kind of like their bilingual requirements.
  4. MemphisMark

    MemphisMark Old School Conservative

    Americans, I believe, are a breed different than any other people in the world. Many Americans are not born as US citizens. Many US citizens, I am sorry to say, are not Americans. Americans are born with a particular spark within them that has an insatiable need to be free to pursue their own destinies, not to just fail or succeed, but to have that opportunity. Their current conditions, the oppressive governments, their crushing poverty, does not extinguish that spark.

    How great is America? You only have to look at which way people are heading in leaky boats, in shipping containers, in crossing open desert.

    I had a post on my blog about a man who became an American long before he emigrated to the United States. It was sadly lost in one of my software transitions. He was on a YouTube video that I can't find, where he spoke as a young child, seeing a US soldier fighting for him in South Vietnam. He realized many years later that at that moment he became an American.

    That is who we are looking for. That is the person we want. The person who willingly risks everything to have that chance, win or lose, at success. And if they lose, be it the 2nd or 42nd time, they get back up the next morning at try again.
  5. Allene

    Allene Registered User

    I think the author blew it all out of proportion and probably for political reasons. To me, merit involving immigration just means the following: law-abiding individuals with no criminal history, enough education or training to support themselves, and a willingness to assimilate into society here. It's got nothing to do with the Nazi's creepy Aryan policies. It's about common sense. Remember we are talking about legal immigrants here. Refugees are a different scenario, but even they should have some sort of screening process. Look at what happened in Germany a few years ago when Merkel opened the floodgates.
    ethics and ShinyTop like this.
  6. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Well said, Allene.
  7. Arc

    Arc Full Member

    The issue of merit is one that carries a very high value in logically, reasonably and in a united way to be addressed. It is good to keep it near the front priority wise in assessing immigration.

    Unfortunately, as far as just the article was concerned I found it circular, convoluted, full of questions but no answers, and it referred several times to issues that were off-topic or irrelevant. While reading the article and afterward in the back of my mind was this nagging voice responding to the article. It was saying to me, "Well that's obvious. Tell me something I don't already know!"
    Allene likes this.
  8. Arc

    Arc Full Member

    An addendum to the general question and to my previous post. Who decides?

    Let us start with that whoever it is that decides they all must US Citizens. Only US Citizens should be entrusted and authorized to make the decision who gets to come into our country where either formally or informally they will never leave.

    No illegal immigration. Tighter controls and reform on legal immigration.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
    Allene likes this.
  9. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Let me give you an example of the Jewish refugees from Russia. Even with all the politics and how US wanted to stick it to the Soviet Union, they STILL had standards. Old ladies and old men on pension were not allowed to come to the US without a sponsor AND a family. The Leon clan made it here with my grandfather and grandmother only because able bodied "kids" came with them, in which 5 of them with their families did.

    All educated via Soviet system (still consider the best thing they had), all were working. No one sat on welfare or got food stamps. There was shame in that and not one of my aunts or uncles even applied.

    Today? Fuck all of that out the fucking window.
    MemphisMark and Allene like this.
  10. MemphisMark

    MemphisMark Old School Conservative

    That is (unfortunately) the difference between then and now.
    Allene likes this.
  11. Allene

    Allene Registered User

    All that made perfect sense too! Otherwise, they'd have ended up sleeping on a park bench or dead in an alley. Today, people who value this country should be able to see the current craziness for what it is.
    ethics likes this.
  12. MemphisMark

    MemphisMark Old School Conservative

    I have been on Food Stamps several times and I was on SSDI for 10 years. I felt great shame to go down and basically beg for help. I was on SSDI due to my being mostly non-functional due to my MH issues. Even so, I worked part time (under the SSDI SGA limits) for eight of those years. Most of my SSDI went to support my family while we were separated. I got off SSDI when I landed a job where I was able to support my family again.

    I was on FS again in 2015 when I was unemployed for almost a year. Again, I dropped them the second I got a paycheck.
  13. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    For the people that truly need it? I have no issues, there's no shame. For the other 95% that don't? Yah, them.
  14. Arc

    Arc Full Member

    I was attending college full-time when food stamps first came out. Full-time students were eligible for them so I filed and was approved for them. I received in today dollars the equivalent of about $180 worth of food stamps for a month, until the end of the semester.

    There was a catch though, as back then you were issued the stamps but you had to use them within the calendar month for which they were issued. My first disbursal was lost or delayed for some reason so I didn't get then until there was something like two-days left for their validity.

    Now keep in mind mainstream society largely looked down on or had negative feelings about this new social program and folks like students getting them.

    Anyway, I had to spend all the stamps in two days. So I went to the supermarket and bought $180 worth of steaks. Man, you could feel the temperature in the line of shoppers behind me in the checkout line rapidly rising as I pushed through those steaks and paid for them with stamps.

    Allene likes this.
  15. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    You don't use stamps anymore. Nope, Gosh that would be shaming people. Nope, it's now that loos like a credit card and you never can tell what one is paying with.
  16. MemphisMark

    MemphisMark Old School Conservative

    Believe me, you can tell. It's a very "patriotic" card, with Stars and Stripes like a waving flag.

    If you have something else in your order that isn't covered by FS, you have to swipe that card first, saying something like "I'm using AFDC first" so the cashier can separate the AFDC-eligible items (in the POS) and deduct the sales tax. Then you can pay for everything else with cash or card (sometimes the same card, if you also have cash benefits). Then there is the "I am only putting $18.03 on AFDC" when the card nears empty.

    Oh, WIC still uses vouchers that the cashier has to validate like a check.
  17. cmhbob

    cmhbob Did...did I do that? Staff Member

    We were on SNAP in Ohio in 2009-11, and even then, I just swiped both my SNAP card, then my debit card. The Kroger POS system sorted things automatically.

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