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What is America?

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by melpomene, Jul 9, 2003.

  1. melpomene

    melpomene Banned

    Aussie PM not embarassed by US claims


    PRIME Minister John Howard today said he was not embarrassed by American admissions over claims Iraq had sought to buy uranium for its nuclear weapons program.Senior White House officials have said President George W Bush should not have mentioned the uranium claims in his State of the Union speech, which laid out the case for war on Iraq.

    And a British inquiry was critical that the claim was included in a British intelligence dossier on Iraq several months after US intelligence agencies had found the claim to be false.

    Mr Howard quoted British intelligence on the uranium claim in his major speech to Parliament on February 4 when he laid out the case for Australia to join the war.

    But Mr Howard today refused to apologise and said his comments in February were based on the best information he had available at the time

    In my opinion, this is a very embarassing admission by the USofA.

    Condoleeza Rice, has openly admitted on US television overnight that the valid information on WMD, that the White House was looking for, was indeed, buried in the "bottom layers" of the CIA and FBI.

    Tony Blair told a hearing today in London, that 10 Downing Street was indeed told that WMD "programmes" did exist.

    I liken this to very poor housekeeping. Poor chains of communication. Poor entries into journals. Poor cash book receipting.

    Its like doing a massive spring clean, when only a vacuum was required.

    I really believe that Bush should step down over this. This is not my attack on America. This is about integrity now and the office of the President of the United States. The world will run with this debacle.

    Am i wrong?
  2. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    Tony Blair is now talking of "evidence of programs of WMD" in an interview I heard today. That is a awfully big step from the actual thing.

    As for John Howard, well he was just a follower here. Bit like a lap dog. That's an easy out for him. This issue has legs and wont go away in a hurry. Nor should it.
  3. IamZed

    IamZed ...

    Bush was here in Dayton for the fourth. In his speech he made reference to Weapons of Mass Murder. That could be a butter knife. I wish the government would tell us how stupid were suppose to be so we will know how to hold our face.
  4. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    Re: Aussie PM not embarassed by US claims

    You are absolutely right in principle -- but then we get Cheney taking over as president. I prefer to leave what we have in place but sweep out the whole rotten crew in the next election.
  5. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member


    Bush didn't have the information, so he should step down?

    Wishful thinking, I think.
  6. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    Re: Aussie PM not embarassed by US claims

    I think you're wrong in the sense that here in the states, most people don't care whether or not there was "real" proof to go in and do what we did in Iraq. Yes there was a lot of protestors, but in a country of over 200 million, only a small percentage disagreed with it, and a lot of people went to those protests because it was an "event", not because they knew what was going on (I wish I had had my camera on me the times I stumbled upon a protest or anti-war rally, to photograph the weirdos).

    Ever since 9-11, the majority of Americans aren't willing to put themselves at risk. If there was so much as a hint that Saddam had WMDs, that was good enough for most of us - and I admit, that was good enough for me, as well. I never want to see the destruction that occurred or feel what I felt on Sept.11 of 2001 ever again, and I was willing to believe. I still have a "don't mess with the USA ever again" mentality as self-defence. The best defence is an extremely strong offence, and that's what most people here think.

    I think most people are more angery at Bush for his tax cuts and his budgeting than what's being discovered about the Iraqi WMDs, or lack thereof.
  7. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    It's not that he didn't have the information - it's that the tiny itty bit of information they had was made into this huge deal and used to incite a war. Made a mountain out of a mole hill.

    But then again, when you're dealing with terrorists, and after going through what we did on 9-11, how do you know what information is valid and what isn't? Is there even a way to tell? I mean, if we, measly citizens that we are, have difficulty in dicephering what to believe from THE MEDIA, can you imagine what it's like to dicepher information coming in from "informants" and "spies" and whatnot?
  8. melpomene

    melpomene Banned

    Misu, Bush should step down, simple as that.

    The whole thing smells to high heaven.

    The administration stuffed up big time. They have made the USofA look real dumb. Like stupid. No credibility, left at all.

    The world has been listening to how great the US intelligence network is, for decades, many decades.

    A right ol' balls up.
  9. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    I don't believe that was the only reason he gave. That was ONE of the reasons he gave, out of many.
  10. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Agreed on the intelligence, disagree that US has lost credibility. Recent example is how fast the entire world looks over to the US when Liberia flared up.
  11. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    Mel, I don't think the US has lost much credibility at all - Bush didn't lose credibility, at least not to us, because we never really saw him as "the leader" - he's just the guy propped up on the podium while the real leaders tell him what to say.

    You take Bush down, who is just doing what he's being told to do, really, you're still going to have the same problems.

    Also, I agree with Leon - the US is still the first place countries turn to for help. When times are good, it's easy to say the US is not credible, the US is crap, etc. But when the pewp hits the fan, where's the first place countries turn to for help?
  12. melpomene

    melpomene Banned

    I think this actually has a double meaning. I believe the world has this attitude, "the US likes racing in to solve alleged problems, then off ya go again"

    Now this is not mel, having a go at the USofA. This is how i see it, and read it, in the media and in the track record of US foreign policy.
  13. melpomene

    melpomene Banned

    If you dont see Bush as your leader, then who is?? :nut: :nut:
  14. melpomene

    melpomene Banned

    Where did i say the USofA was crap?
  15. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    Right, mel.

    Good column today by a guy who usually is pretty supportive of Bush, and has supported the Iraq war, "What did Bush know -
    and when?." He makes this point..

    More: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/story/99187p-89741c.html

    He concludes with an argument for a full, open investigation of what happened with intelligence inffo as a first step in rebuilding credibility.
  16. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    No no, I didn't say you said USA was crap - but that's the general feeling around the world. There's no denying that most people around the world do not like the USA.

    Also, regarding who are the leaders - I don't know about anyone else here, but I personally view as the leaders all the guys that have been sitting in the White House and have been involved in the Federal Government for years and years, guys like Cheney, as our real leaders.

    Bush Sr, when he was in office, was definately our leader. Bush Jr, not so much - he doesn't have the experience that his dad has, and I wouldn't be surprised if Jr is getting lots of advice from his Dad.
  17. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    I could count, on one hand, how the US raced in to solve world's problems prior to 9.11.01, which was one of my biggest gripes when it came to the US, they didn't do it enough.

    I also agree with Misu when she states the the President is not our sole leader. Pink is going to hate me for this but our leader system is well balanced across branches. The President happens to be the mouthpiece but even he has advisors.
  18. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    Riight. Of course. They want our leadership. They also do not want to touch this disaster-in-the-making with a ten-foot pole.
  19. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Bosnia, Albania were also categorized as such.
  20. melpomene

    melpomene Banned

    You know what gets me about the tragedy of 9/11. Is that there were 200+ other nations involved in the WTC disaster. Sure it was on American soil, but hey Germany has 200+ die, France had 300+ die, the Netherlands, even a huge Swiss share company's head office was taken out. Japan had a huge number of casualties, in the 500+ , if my memory serves me well.

    The USofA, races in far too fast with these hot spots around the world.

    There should be more negotiations around the table, on level playing field. The USofA has far too much say on the world stage.

    Now i will more than likely be gunned down for this opinion. But i just dont care. Its about time America pulled back on these hotspots.

    If i have to read one more report of a soldier getting it in the head at point blank range while getting a soda, i will be sick. Get those kids out of there. Hand the reigns over to an interim Iraqi government.

    As for Liberia. Another mess. Let the Liberians sort out the Liberian mess. Attend to humanitarian aid, refugee relief, shelter for the women and children on the neighbouring borders, but thats it.

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