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Water, The Next Oil

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by ethics, Jan 5, 2003.

  1. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Seems as if it's already starting in the US:

    Three of the eight pumps that tap into the glistening reservoir of Colorado River water near here are sitting idle, by order of the federal government.

    With the pumps switched off since 8 a.m. New Year's Day, less water is churning down the 242-mile aqueduct toward coastal Southern California, where 17 million people rely on snowmelt from the Rocky Mountains for washing dishes, flushing toilets and watering lawns.

    This is a pivotal moment in the contentious history of water in the arid West, which more often than not has pitted California's unquenchable thirst against that of its smaller but equally parched neighbors.

    For the first time since it was given the authority four decades ago, the United States Department of the Interior has said no to California's dipping into the Colorado River for more than its allotted share.

    Fortunately, <a href="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=68&e=1&cid=68&u=/nyt/20030105/ts_nyt/in_a_first__u_s__puts_limits_on_california_s_thirst">This NY TIMES Story</a> does not need registration to read.
  2. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Unfortunately the link is way too long... so cut and paste this:

  3. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

  4. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    This is largely a political move. The Colorado River actually drains into the Gulf of California. The taking of water by California really doesn't do much to other states' use of the river. Mexico might be complaining a tad and GWB certainly goes out of his way to kiss Vicente Fox' ass; but I think all in all, this is just a way for this administration, as most previous administrations have done, to punish states that didn't support them in the election.
  5. jamming

    jamming Banned

    Arizona, Nevada, and Utah went for Bush, just showing how self centered you Californians are.
  6. wapu

    wapu Veteran Member

    To make up for it they will just drain Lake Shasta in Northern California and send more water down the Sacramento River. Isn't this a beautiful picture of a lake? I mean wow all that dirt. The dryer it gets in Southern California the more they have to extend the boat ramps at Shasta. There is nothing like the thrill of backing your boat down 300 feet of narrow ramp. Not to mention the dumbasses who's trucks are too small for their boat and they can't get the darn thing back up again. Thank you once again SoCal for bleeding the rest of the state dry. This time literally.

  7. jamming

    jamming Banned

    I guess SoCal will just have to start a severe form of water rationing. Maybe its time to put some limits on people coming across the border? Hmm.....How about getting rid of your green lawns and Golf Courses? Desalinization Plants? Maybe there are just too many people there for the water to support? Time to get rid of water intensive industries.
  8. bruzzes

    bruzzes Truthslayer

    The new "oil" can come from Lake Erie. We can pipe it down like oil.

    What's the going price?

    I won't "carp" on this subject, but that may be a side benifit.
  9. jamming

    jamming Banned

    I think they want to drink it bruzzes, not burn it ;)
  10. Andy


    One thing missing on the above map is in Arizona..

    The Colorodo River Aqueduct Project (CAP) was finished about 10 years ago to bring water south to Phoenix and Tucson from the river.

    Quite a feat of engineering seeing as the Santa Cruz river, (and if you've ever SEEN the Santa Cruz river which originates in Mexico, or know what Mexico DUMPS into it on a daily basis, you too would want to dam it up right on the border!!! rofl) which flows NORTH through the state, so the river aqueduct needed to be pumped UPHILL all the way south to it's final reservoir just on the other side of the mountains west of Tucson.

    Even though places like Tucson and Phoenix rely HEAVILY on well water, the explosion of the population over the last 20 years forced city planers to come up with this idea just to keep it's population "wet".

    But like mentioned above, it was mostly a political move way back when to bring jobs to the area, and keep the current set of voters "happy" ;)
  11. immortal one

    immortal one 501st Geronimo

    I live near Lake Erie. I'll sell them all the water they want. :_
  12. bruzzes

    bruzzes Truthslayer

    ...and here I thought jamming was educated...

    It is the Cuyahoga River where Cleveland Public Power gets it's oil from silly!

    Lake Erie doesn't burn. Well, maybe your throat a little if you drink it. We use it here in Cleveland to flush our toliets.
  13. Twingo

    Twingo Registered User

    Don't they have enough money out there in Cali and plenty of water out to their west to throw up a few desalination plants and pump in as much water as they need ??
  14. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    I would think?

    Any Cali folks verify this?
  15. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    Plenty of seawater, but no money. Our governor, <strike>Howdy Doody</strike> Joe Davis has spent us into a $35 Billion deficit. Anyhow, as I've pointed out, this is just a political ploy and the pumping stations will in all likelihood be turned back on once some secondary contracts are let.
  16. martissimo

    martissimo Veteran Member

    that is not nearly as outlandish as it sounds, and is actually being mentioned by some media sources.

    The summation of <A HREF="http://www.polstate.com/archives/000785.html#000785">this article</A> is certainly a very pointed remark.

    <I>From up here, the California water cutoff looks like pure politics. Cutting off California's irrigators will undoubtedly help Bush in Colorado and the other Colorado River Compact states (AZ, NV, NM, UT and WY). While the electoral votes of these states combined do not equal California's, the thinking could be that California is a lost cause and anything Bush can do to hold the mountain states (and pick up New Mexico) is worth doing</I>

    interesting stuff.
  17. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    Unfortunately, there are a few inaccuracies in this thread.

    1. The Colorado River compact was first established in 1922.

    2. Mexico was added, and guaranteed an allotment in 1945.

    3. In 1968 maximum salinity levels were established in 1968, requiring minimum flows to Mexico.

    Many of the states underused their allotments, and the excess was sold to California. These states (especially Arizona and Nevada) now want all their allotments due to their population growth, which is understandable.

    During the Clinton administration, a deal was brokered to allow California to continue taking excess water out of the river. To do so, the state agreed to transfer 7% of the massive amount of river water going to the state's poorest county, Imperial County. The water is used mostly to turn the desert land into green farmland, so even people like wapu can have cheap produce year round. As a side benefit, the farm runoff is nearly the sole source of water for the Salton Sea, already suffering due to high salinity. Numerous endangered species thrive there. Herein lies the rub.

    If Imperial County sells part of it's water to San Diego, the feds will open the spigots again, but to a lessor degree. If they don't, the water remains shut off, and they lose about the same. They will make as much money by selling the water and fallowing their fields, as by continuing to plant them. But, if they don't continue to pump runoff water into the Salton Sea, the county may be responsible in the near future for all of the enviromental damage to the Sea. They sought money and guarantees for the coastal cities to pay for the eco mitigation and damages. The water districts in L.A. and San Diego wouldn't agree to their terms, and so here we are.

    The real problem is the unchecked immigration into California, Arizona and Nevada. California is by far the largest agricultural producer in the nation, but it comes at a price. That price is massive amounts of cheap water. When the population increases a choice must be made. The state has been unwilliing or unable to make that choice. Most of the water compacts with the farmers are decades old and cannot be changed, so it's only by their good will that they will sell their valuable water rights to the urban areas. If they're to be held responsible for eco damage to the enviroment 5, 10, 20 years or longer down the road, it ain't going to happen.

    The bottom line is this. The west wasn't built on gold or the railroads, it was built on water rights. 150 years of poor policy and this is the result. I can guarantee that if they don't shut down the southern border, things will only get worse, and quick. But that's not politically correct to mention, especially if you are a democrat.
  18. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    This reminds me of the gas pipe usage fights between Ukraine and Russia.

    Unfortunately, the result was Ukrainians were freezing, since they had no source of their own when Russia cut their supplies.

    I remember it well one year. Wore 3 sweatshirts, a sweater and a heavy coat, went outside and it felt like I was wearing a newspaper. This was the end of October.
  19. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    I'd be interested to hear of how aware the average domestic user is of water usage responsibilities in California.

    Of course being so dry here in Oz we have very similar issues with usage and salinity problems caused by poor land practices over the past few hundred years and now are making an effort to reverse the damage.

    On a personal level the hosing down of hard surfaces is frowned upon and banned in times of extreme shortage. The message is dont leave the tap running uneccessarily like when washing your teeth. Have a dual flush toilet system in your home, dont water the garden in the middle of the day when evaporation rates are high. All common sense things but they even go to the extent of teaching correct practice to the kids at school.

    Some Hotels etc used to have automatic flushing urinals in the gents which went off every 3 mins 24 hiours a day even when the joint was shut. Crazy! But I believe that's been changed.

    Industrial usage practices are another matter and its something I dont know a lot about. Suffice to say I'm sure they could use less.

    The water shortage can be managed in large part by a successful and responsible approach to the usage of current available supplies for a start.
  20. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Depends on the area. I've lived in several areas that have had severe water shortages, and over the years, I've maintained good water conservation practices. Don't even wash the truck except to get the salt off of it in the winter.

    You'll find many, tho, that have never lived through a water shortage and their conservation practices are non-existant. I think you'll find many in California are used to such measures.

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