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U.S. Citizens Working for Al Qaeda Can Be Killed in CIA Actions

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by jamming, Dec 4, 2002.

  1. jamming

    jamming Banned

    American citizens working for al Qaeda overseas can legally be targeted and killed by the CIA under President Bush's rules for the war on terrorism, U.S. officials say.

    The authority to kill U.S. citizens is granted under a secret finding signed by the president after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks that directs the CIA to covertly attack al Qaeda anywhere in the world. The authority makes no exception for Americans, so permission to strike them is understood rather than specifically described, officials said.

    These officials said the authority will be used only when other options are unavailable. Military-like strikes will take place only when law enforcement and internal security efforts by allied foreign countries fail, the officials said.
  2. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Common sense, no?

    Just because you are an American doesn't give you the right to war against Americans.
  3. jamming

    jamming Banned

    Care to comment on this part of the article, Ethics?
  4. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Yah, see my Amnesty International post in BNA forum.
  5. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    Yes,l it makes sense to take out all enemies.

    But I would feel a lot more comfortable with this policy if I had more faith in those who will be implementing it. As I have said elsewhere, I think the Twig is a bit of a moron and Ashcroft is ... well, best left unsaid. And a lot of the others who will be involved I wouldn't trust to find their own asses in the dark using both hands.

    My general view is that a policy with serious raamifications if misapplied -- like killing someone -- should not be adopted without strong protections. That is why we have judicial review for lots of things, including such trivial ones as telephone taps, etc. Without external review things easily get out of hand in the best of circumstances, and when those implementing the policies without review are incompetent or malicious expect the worst.
  6. jamming

    jamming Banned

    Well Bob, their are reviews some internal and some external, however this would cover the CIA if they were to move against the terrorist regardless of the results. Which is what I applaud Bush for having the guts to do. The CIA have their own lawyers and then there are others in the command authority which would review as well.
  7. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    The point is that all of those doing the internal reviews report to the figure that is making the determination of guilt and passing the death sentence. It is not an independent review. It is the way things work in tyrannies or autocratic states, not democracies where we respect the rule of law, not the rule of man. It it not rule of law when the king says off with his head and one of the kings servants is charged with reviewing the decision.

    Perhaps we should start referring to King George. :)
  8. Sunriser13

    Sunriser13 Knee Deep in Paradise

    I think I understand exactly where Robert is coming from on this one. I, too, am afraid of the potential for abuse, and the consequences of incompetence.

    Although it seems like a great idea on its surface, outside, impartial review is a necessity...
  9. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    I think Americans should be captured and put on trial, wherever possible. Not because they're worthy of more "respect" than our enemies, but because we have the tools and necessary apparatus to try them.

    Putting foreign nationals on trial is a sticky wicket--anyone remember the Noriega trial?--but with Americans, there won't be a lot of international outcry.

  10. IamZed

    IamZed ...

    I stayed out drinking with an elder German client a week or so ago. He went on and on how the steps we are taking today are directly in Hitlers footprints when he first took total power. The next step according to him was there will be a totally unbelievable accusation of a Bush opponent as being an al Qaeda sympathizer. They will disappear. After that, its over. No man ever surrendered emergency powers.
  11. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Well, I think your German friend needs to take a step back from comparing Bush to Happy Adolf.

    Bush isn't nearly as smart. :)

    John Asscrack, though...he kinda scares me.

  12. immortal one

    immortal one 501st Geronimo

    The power and authority to name anyone, even a US citizen as an Al Queda sympathizer, and to cancel that person, anywhere, at any time. Judge, jury, and executioner, all in one.
    No questions asked...no answers given.
  13. jamming

    jamming Banned

    Yeah right, when I went to work for the government, I surrendered my morality and would work for any tyrant. Give me a break, the people that are there now have the same absence or presence of morality that I had. Please, some of the hardest working people are the intelligence community that collectively had to work under some of the toughest laws that ever had been imposed on a modern intelligence operation. They missed 9-11, do you really believe that they want that to happen again? They were given a clearance through red tape that rendered them next to useless and are having to rebuild a lot of experience. However, their morality is based upon to protect and defend the Consititution of the United States of America from all enemies foreign and domestic. They must have the ability to work with less fetters than before, without fear of reprisal or the community will face the same and more problems as the enemy is culled from the field of conflict.

    Just let me me give you a piece of advice, I worry more about the past soldiers of the Airborne than about the Intelligence Community. They were not screened by psychiatrists or battery of tests even before they were hired, nor subjected to them as often as the Intelligence Community in retests. If I had a worry is would be about the ones that tested unfit for psychological reasons when they went tried to become Special Forces and were let back into the normal Airborne.

    I understand your German, they are paralyzed by their own past. Believe me in that there is no amature nationalist organization that looks at foreigner's and citizen's differently, recruiting people in the community. In the community you are taught respect for others as your lives literally may depend upon them one day. We don't trust others but we verify them, by intircate means that are to long to go into today. Believe me that there are counters that are recruited directly from initial training and taught to internally police the organization as sleepers in various departments. Then the general populous of the community police each other. Having lived through it many of you don't know what is sacrificed for you on a daily presence by these individuals, which is as it should be.

    But on their behalf, "Screw You! that think you are somehow more moral than we."
  14. IamZed

    IamZed ...

    I must agree with what you said about being paralyzed by their own past. That is fact. The friend I was drinking with could not express that enough. The EU will soon overrule any NATO decree soon. But still, this guy actually said two times is enough. And he meant it.
  15. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    As it is now, I'm not worried by this at all.

    I see it no different as putting an eighteen year old in camo and in a foreign land and telling him to go kill the bad guys, but don't kill the friendlies. That's done all the time in war, and that's what this is. There have to be enough safeguards for this stuff to work, just as in the military scenario, and I think there are. Then again I tend not to be too much of an alarmist until I see something with my own eyes. Really, the chance an innocent was killed by the CIA while chasing al Qaeda, is somewhat less than getting in your car and getting killed in a TA while driving to work, don't you all think?
  16. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    A touch melodramatic, yes?

  17. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    I don't have much of a problem with this. If you think about it...if they're after a bunch of al qaeda guys and just happen to catch an American in the middle of that, I would have to presume that he wasn't with the Red Cross....and if he was, he sure as hell was in the wrong place at the wrong time ;)

    Now, more to the point, what do you think the chances are of getting Geraldo, Wolf Blitzer and Christianne Amanpour added to the list?
  18. immortal one

    immortal one 501st Geronimo

    Melodramatic? Perhaps...but many things that are happening right now we would have never dreamed would happen only a bit more than a year ago.
  19. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    True, but I'm not one of those people who sees each and every liberty we have as being imperiled. And certainly not by those who might be Americans, but still stand to destroy America.

    If we have the chance to capture them, I'm all for it.

    If not, we turn them into smoking holes.

    We've done it before, all throughout the 1980s.

  20. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    Here is the full explanation of the new policy. It should clear up any confusion as to what it means.


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