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Trump the New McCarthy?

Discussion in '2016 Election' started by ShinyTop, Nov 23, 2015.

  1. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    It was over before I was old enough to know it was going on. But the speeches of the candidates, mostly Trump, resemble what I have read of McCarthyism. Scare the people. Scare them with real items, scare them with association, scare them with their neighbors, scare them with religion, scare them with race. And run for office.

    We let the radical Islamists win when we stop all immigration. We let fear win if we vote because the candidate promotes fear.

    I consider myself a centrist but fear mongering candidates will move me off center.
  2. Arc

    Arc Full Member

    Yeah, but no disrespect intended, just an honest question: where would you move to--it seems many choices that start out correctly end up with the old from the frying pan to the fire. (Despite best and well informed intentions.)
  3. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    No, that's not quite it. I was alive and interested politics then, although at a young age, and McCarthyism was all about challenging peoples' loyalty to US and to our Constitution and to our capitalistic economy. He accused people of being "Commies."
  4. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    Good question, Arc. I am still waiting for a candidate I can support. Bernie is the closest I have seen.

    Challenging their loyalties by calling everybody a commie. Claiming to hold papers proving it. Making people fear others. I did mix McCarthyism and the fears our current candidates are trying to capitalize on.
  5. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    I can't really agree or disagree since you have not provided examples of his McCarthyism.
  6. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    In a way, this has been the modus operandi for candidates for some time now, and not just Trump.

    The reason Trump is standing out more so than others is the media is terrified that he may actually secure the GOP nomination and is therefore doing their level best to portray him in a way that would galvanize the left.

    Don't get me wrong, I think Trump is an idiot and the way he engages his mouth before he engages his brain would be disastrous if he were to be elected. But linking him to McCarthyism is exactly what the media would love the public to do.
    Allene likes this.
  7. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    You made a good analogy and I quite agree with it. Substitute fear of Commies with fear of terrorists (and of global warming if you believe that bullshit) and the analogy fits.

    If they can't convince us with reason, logic and facts, they'll stoop to catering to our fears with demagoguery.
  8. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    I quite agree with you. However either I'm an idiot or there isn't a chance in hell of Trump being elected should he secure the nomination.

    The reason Trump is popular is because he's a demagogue. He speaks exactly to what all conservatives want. There's just a few problems with that though. Some of the things conservatives want are just plain unreasonable or unfeasible. Trumps biggest mistake is in thinking we can deport 10,000,000 illegal aliens. That is so not going to happen! If he were president and tried to do that, first of all the courts would stop him. And second, the US economy cannot afford even the transportation cost to send them back to where they came from. Liberals would throw their bodies in the way of the buses, seeing their future electorate leaving the country. And like it or not, illegal alien workers are an integral part of our economy. And let's not forget the humanitarian aspects of ripping families apart.

    Except Trump is not going to become President because if he were the candidate it would galvanize liberals to vote in massive numbers and the Republicans would lose the election.

    I keep hoping Trump will mellow out and drop his unreasonable/unfeasible plans and stick to the parts of his agenda that could actually work. He has so many excellent ideas, but he also has a plethora of whacked out ideas like the deport liberals thing that I sometimes agree with those who accuse him of running for office just as a lark, with no real plans to attempt to become the nominee when the convention comes around.
  9. MemphisMark

    MemphisMark Old School Conservative

    I do not consider his stance on immigration to be too radical. Listen to what he says, rather than what the MSM is saying he's saying.

    Yes, he wants to stop all immigration from the Middle East, until they can be properly vetted.

    Consider that ISIS probably has a machine to produce "clean" Syrian passports, or a government official with access to said machine and sympathies toward ISIS. INS can query their databases all they want, if there's no information to query, they will come back "clean."

    It's like gangs have agents in the police departments. Kids were recruited, told to keep their nose clean and were not required to get gang ink so they could get a job as an officer. A couple of years ago in the Memphis PD, two officers almost shot each other in the station because they were from rival gangs.

    I like the idea of use no social media as part of the vetting process, however "someone in charge" nixed that idea...
  10. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    First of all, Trump has as much as admitted he can't really deport all the 10-30 million illegal aliens. He's full of bluster but he's not an idiot. He knows the courts would never let him get away with that, and being in business he understands that the courts would never let an executive order stand if it called for deporting these illegals. If you don't believe he knows this, the alternative is to presume he is an idiot, and irrespective of what anybody thinks of Trump he is no idiot.

    As far as stopping immigration until the immigrants can be properly vetted, the biggest problem has been Trump referring to identifying those to be prevented by religious criteria, clearly against our Constitution. But I hear there is no Constitutional problem at all identifying immigrants who are from or who has visited specific countries. That is totally legal, and there is no harm in simply vetting all prospective immigrants with increased vigilism.

    ISIS has taken over at least one Syrian city and their government offices with machines and blank passports, and has the capability of issuing Syrian passports with any data they want. The captured offices are known, and the passport machines have city-specific data in a code stamped into the passports, so all Syrian passports can be examined for city of issuance. Hoever I have no idea how easily the designator can be altered, probably more easily than generating a totally fake passport without the machine.

    It is patently clear that the US does not have sufficient data from foreign sources to say anything about any immigrant other than "we have no data."

    As far as social media, I'm dumbfounded that the government is not using this resource. I have no idea how Constitutional the government accessing private profiles, but they should if there are no Constitutional grounds. I can't imagine any Constitutional reason why the government cannot access public information, unless it's part of this whole amnesty city thing, or part of Obama's hear no evil see no evil, "let's let all the immigrants in."

    I can't understand why social media posted by the prospective immigrant should not be used. Haven't you hears? Once it's posted on the Internet it's posted forever!

    That's one reason I use my first name as my member name. My name is well up the top 100 American given names. I can speak freely on this forum and have little fear anything I say will be tracked down to me personally.

    That's what the Constitution was written for. We should all have freedom of speech. Freedom of speech without reprisal is NOT in the Constitution, but there is no reason your pulpit cannot be statistically anonymous.
  11. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

  12. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member



    When you ignore the fact that the majority of those who are attempting to immigrate from the Middle East and North Africa have little regard for the laws and societal norms for the country they're attempting to migrate to, you have a recipe for disaster as other countries are now seeing.

    There's a kernel of truth to what Trump is calling for. Until we're able to completely vet those who wish to immigrate to the US, I tend to agree that there should be a halt to this lunacy that all immigrants should be accepted.

    What a crock of doo-doo. When you accept immigrants from countries that have a dismal record of how they treat women, what on god's green earth makes the authorities think that they'll magically change when they arrive on distant shores?
  13. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    Political correctness has now become a counter-survival skill.

    It seems clear to all that Obama's long term goal was to reduce US influence in the world by taking our military and economic power down a notch, and by betraying our allies and aiding ours and their enemies.

    The way the nuke deal with Iran played out, you could almost assume Iran is our closest ally in the ME. Now it looks like the Saudis and Iranians are setting up to get into hostilities. We showed the Saudis long ago that we could not be trusted as an ally. And Israel? I would be surprised if 1% of Israelis trust the US.

    Meanwhile Obama is at work at home cutting our economy down, eroding our Constitutional rights, bloating the federal government and national debt to unbelievable degrees.

    And yet worse, the conservatives are a house divided. The liberals are going to run Obama the 2nd AKA Hillary Clinton, and you just know if Clinton gets taken out by the email server fiasco that Biden will be the man.

    America is a pale shadow of what we were a few decades ago. The way we're headed we'll eventually be an Islam caliphate ruling a bunch of Mexicans under Sharia. I'm glad I've had the good fortune to have lived most of my days during the era when America was great.
  14. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    Biker, I am not against better vetting of any individual entering this country.
  15. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    I'm for examining every person who is not a US citizen returning home before allowing them entry.

    Not that that would ever happen. US citizens should be carefully scrutinized considering whether their itinerary was to Jihad-land.

    I'm not suggesting our Constitutional rights to privacy should be violated, but there is a tipping point where we may lose our country and our freedom if we just keep on what we are doing now.

    And we DEFINITELY need a system to track persons entering the US on a visa and verify their location and authenticate their departure from our country. AND we need a system to verify that every person who works in the US had the legal right to work in the US, augmented by an easy to use system for employers to verify right to work, and stiff penalties for employers who don't verify employees and/or employ them anyway.

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