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To Contain, or to Crush?

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Sierra Mike, Sep 3, 2014.

  1. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    ISIS, that is.
    I get that the US is extremely war-weary, and I get that Obama is very risk-averse and would do almost anything to avoid anything that might derail his plans for a shining legacy (to which I say, "Good luck with that."). But he could at least talk the part, right, and let the institutions that actually conduct operations against our enemies start doing what they need to do?
     
  2. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    Obama has completely lost his credibility on the international stage. At this point, any hope he has of forming a coalition has no chance. ISIS will continue to be an issue through his remaining tenure, while he tries minimalist Carter-esque measures to save face.

    This is the problem with liberal politicians. It's not ever about doing the right thing. The right thing would be to have operators on the ground right now, bringing the pain to these assholes. Killing the shit out of them. And I'd think about ten thousand pissed off Marines to start, by way of stabilization force.
     
  3. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Which is what?

    Here's my take. When I get on my motorcycle, I am accepting a huge risk that comes with it. I may not walk again, I may die, I accept that every time I start the engine and ride. These journalists KNEW the risk, there are massive amount of personal stories from other journalists who've fled the area and they have quotes of these journalists that they are going to take the risk.

    They took the risk, and unfortunately, they died knowing the risk. I am not defending or apologizing for these savages who are still living in 12th century. I am not saying that these guys deserved any of this. I am just saying that billions of dollars should not be shifted, more military risk should not be taken, due to these guys getting their heads knifed off.
     
  4. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    I can't disagree with that, Leon, I don't for a second think these guys made any wise moves at all in deciding to chase the next great story.

    But I have a hard time with any group of fuckholes who are running around killing innocent noncombatants, children, torturing. I think we as a free people are obligated to intervene, to exterminate that cancer from the world. My problem is that we don't do it right. We're too reserved, too cautious to actually do it properly.
     
  5. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    That's because to do it properly means the enactment of processes that inflict maximum lethality through maximum violence, and that leads to American and collateral deaths. Which is unfortunate and regrettable, but does not negate the necessity.
     
  6. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    And I don't disagree with that either. Obama is horrendous on FP and this is just one of the many examples of how the history will make him its bitch.

    Notice no one is beheading any Russians?
     
  7. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Does beheading a Russian actually do anything? :D
     
  8. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    No, they just grow another.
     
  9. Sir Joseph

    Sir Joseph Registered User

    Considering that Israel who was actually being attacked was criticized for killing civilians, I fail to see how Obama can go after ISIL and kill civilians when so far ISIL has not attacked the US.
    Obama has zero credibility with anything these days and I would not want the US leading anything, they would just cut and run the first time something bad happens because Obama would not want that, since it would not be utopian.
     
  10. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

  11. Sir Joseph

    Sir Joseph Registered User

    (but if it reaches Kenya, it might be a threat to Obama's homeland.) :)
     
    rockotman likes this.
  12. rockotman

    rockotman Blown on the steel breeze

    Oh - that's right... Kenya is one of the 57 states BHO visited...
     
  13. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Stonehawk likes this.
  14. Stonehawk

    Stonehawk AKA Jerry

    Agreed. We have the means, the methods, and some of the best fighters on Earth. We should be raining hellfire on these people THERE, to exterminate them THERE, rather than waiting, getting a building or two bombed HERE, then getting all up in arms over it.

    They have already threatened us, they are decapitating American citizens (whether or not they should have been there is irrelevant), and they have shown they ARE a threat to us. Too many of our citizens (including the media) are far too complacent with rabid dogs such as these, and are perfect willing to be pacifist about it. I am not.

    Land the boots on the ground, and pound the shit out of them. Until we are willing to go that extra mile and let our forces do what needs to be done, we will never see the end of them, or their threat.

    Jerry
     
  15. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    So what do we think about this?

    Dempsey Opens Door to Ground Engagement

    Personally? If we want to eradicate at least the current case of characters, it's going to involve some risk, and risk entails committing ground troops. It's blindingly obvious that the Arabs have reverted to type and are waiting for someone else to do the heavy lifting, even when it's their own people being slaughtered. And I think the eventual threat to the US and its interests becomes magnified if an outfit like ISIS is allowed to continue breathing.

    Not saying such steps will take the wind out of the radical element's sails, but it will certainly buy us some time.
     
  16. Allene

    Allene Registered User

    I agree with you on that, even though it is depressing to think of another round of this stuff. The alternative is far, far worse. I would like to see us go in and do what is necessary to get rid of these people. That will require killing people, so Obama will spend a lot of time on golf courses trying not to think about it. Later, I hope we don't spend years pouring $$$ into a hole and arming corrupt factions in the hope of "building democracy." I'm not sure they know how to spell that word over there--in any of their languages.
     
  17. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    There isn't a bonanza of options here, which is unfortunate but also not at all unexpected. We found out the hard way that while murderers like Hussein are horrible, they're apparently necessary in that region of the world. There's no sense of community or shared, mutual sacrifice for the greater good among the denizens of the "Arab street;" there's only an overwhelming sentiment of "What's in it for me?" Until people in that region manage to subordinate their personal desires and accept the challenges that come with working in a collaborative fashion with their fellow citizens, then guys like Hussein, Mullah Omar, Qadaffi, Bashir, and the Saud family will always be present. And regrettably, will always be necessary.

    I'm not eager to send US troops back into the region. Not at all. It's a cesspool, and always has been. But there's some killing that needs to be done, and the quickest way to do that is to go there and get it over with.
     
  18. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    The problem with wiping out one extreme is there's always another waiting in the wings to fill the vacuum once the dust settles. While I do agree ISIS is a entity that needs to be wiped from the face of the earth, it's not going to improve things at all. The cesspool will still smell, and a new batch of turds will just float to the surface to continue the stench.
     
  19. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Not disagreeing, but if you hit them hard enough and mercilessly, it might give the new guys something to think about. As in, killing Americans might look bad on the P&L statement of Terrorists4Allah, LLC.
     
    Allene and Copzilla like this.
  20. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    That being said, there is no way to crush an ideology, so long as some true believers remain, or those susceptible to this kind of crap step up and take on the responsibility. Recognizing that does not alleviate the need for the US military to do what it does best, which is staking bodies up all over the place.
     

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