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The harassment rule

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by joseftu, Aug 31, 2006.

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  1. cdw

    cdw Ahhhh...the good life.

    I dunno, I may be dense, but if someone tells you not to pm them and then later, they pm you, it would seem to me the pm ban is over and done with.
    But, that's me. Whole thing is starting to remind me of the question why abused women never leave their abusers. :rofl:
  2. Domh

    Domh Full Member

    That is exactly what I was getting at with my comments above related to restraining orders.

    If a woman gets one, then breaks it herself, well...

  3. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    How come I've never gotten one of these nasty PMs? It's not fair I tell ya!

    Really, this entire bitchfest is on the level of a six year old. If someone sent me too many bad notes, I'd just turn off my PMs. Anyone who A) goes whining to daddy 'cause they got a nasty little electronic note deserves utter contempt, and B) anyone sending nasty little electronic notes privately to someone they really don't even know personally, is a jack ass, and can be promptly forgotten.

    It's a fucking forum people, it's not your life. Nobody's opinion here means squat in the grand scheme of things. If you get upset, take a break for awhile. It's not really rocket science. I can't believe this thread is still going, in other words why not grow up.
  4. Advocat

    Advocat Viral Memes a Speciality Staff Member

    Well, the legally minded can have a field-day tossing theories and "what-ifs" at each other.

    The Mods have stated their position on no-contact; it's to prevent harassment.
    A person can request "no contact via PM" from another member from the Mods. If the person continue to PM the requester, action will be taken.

    If the "no-contact" requester decides this gives him free rein to reverse-harass the other person, guess what? THEY can complain to the Mods... and action will be taken.

    Now, here's the part everyone -- in their flights into legalistic fantasy -- seems to miss. The Mods will look over the PMs and decide what the intent of each the parties was, and take action accordingly. Faith and begorah, the Mods do have minds and are not locked into pre-decided action by a rule we ourselves devised!

    So, harassers beware. A no-contact request is NOT a license to reverse-harass a person. If some slaps a "no-contact" on you through the Mods, then the no-contact is permanent (seems simple enough) unless the requestor contacts the Mods and revokes it. If the person PMs you, it is NOT permission to contact them... and if the PM they send you is unpleasant, let us know and we WILL take action.

    Thanks for your attention.
  5. cdw

    cdw Ahhhh...the good life.

    Really? That's weird. I'm glad you clarified it, which I guess answers Joe's original question. And he's right. That whole policy is not in the rules. Seems obvious one of the people involved didn't know he needed to recontact the mods to have the 'stop order' rescinded either.

    I'm with Stio. :)
  6. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Tried to say the same thing. But you know some people...
  7. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    I know you did. Maybe I was too harsh, and I didn't mean it for any particular person. I am just baffled some times by this stuff. I've never had the urge to privately bash someone in a PM and I can't understand how anyone would.
  8. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Start disagreeing in threads, and then you come on in the am to see a flame or someone telling you to go f-yourself or something like it.
  9. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    Where the hell is our :notworthy: smiley? Oh, well, this'll do: :clap:
  10. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    (This reply is to the topic in general and is not directed at any specific member.)

    I've had enough of this foolishness. I disabled my PMs 4-5 days ago, not specifically because of the current discussion, but every bit helps. Instead, any forum member is welcome to send me friendly or thoughtful emails. Just use the forum's email feature for that purpose. I reserve the right to ignore any emails that do not meet my standards.

    "We don' need no steenkin' PMs!" ;)

    1 person likes this.
  11. Advocat

    Advocat Viral Memes a Speciality Staff Member

    You just got some rep... :thumbsup:
  12. ravital

    ravital Banned

    I wanted to avoid asking a stupid question, regarding what I have bolded above, when Leon said it a few messages earlier, but since you've repeated it (and cdw is drawing conclusions from it) - I have rescinded/revoked my former PM ban right on this thread, in public, so there is no chance I could go back on it or entrap anyone or pretend I didn't say it. Is that good enough, or do I still need to PM a mod about it?
  13. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    I'd say it's good enough, doubly so for being public. Although an apology to the banned members would be nice ;)
    1 person likes this.
  14. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    So, in other words, the moderators and administrators can read our PMs at will, and the only thing that protects our member-to-member privacy of PMs is the moderators' lack of any inclination to snoop.

    I'm reminded of British Secretary of State Henry Stinson, who in 1927 said, "Gentlemen do not read each others' mail," and abandoned British work on breaking the German Enigma cipher machine as well as ending virtually all cryptoanalysis work in Britain. Interesting historically but perhaps not that relevant to our present discussion except that I always loved the quote.

    The real problem at GA arises when members (and moderators) cease acting in a gentlemanly manner. Combined with the medium of PMs, it requires moderators to act in loco parentis, to become parents disciplining their (member) children.

    Presumably we are all adults or at least close enough to be expected to behave as adults. Shame on everybody who either harassed via PMs or who cried to their mommy/daddy moderators. (Not that I know or care to know the specifics or the individuals involved.)

    As a software engineer I would be tempted to change the forum software to provide an ignore feature specific to PMs. Consider that a feature request. Technological fixes always work better than sociological fixes. In the mean time, children please behave yourselves. :)
  15. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    There are two individuals who can read PMs IF it is necessary. I highly doubt either of these individuals are reading your PMs. They have far more important things to be doing.
  16. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    All forums are database based, all posts and content is kept there. So any forum's admins can read PM's, IM's or what have you. ANY and EVERY forum you belong to, you can be sure people have access to your private PM's--whether they choose to is another matter. Moderators can't and the only people who have DB access is myself and Tom.

    Each table has their own content and the last time I had to go in PM table was when there was a harassment charge.

    This reminds me of the NSA "snooping" issue. People think that the people who CAN read PM's (or tap in to the phones) actually give two shits who or what is being said in them. Many times they think their petty messages are important enough for people to spend the time to get to. Guess what, we don't. But you should also know that this was never a secret here. I think I even made a public post about it a few years ago. The only time we go there is when we need to. If you have a plan on giving someone a blow job and you are going via PM, well then, perhaps you should use not just email but PGP encryption? :D
  17. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    :rofl: Bastage! Ice tea all over the screen! :lol:
  18. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    It appears that you two should get your stories coordinated.

    Considering that I don't have my PMs enabled, I'm inclined to agree with you. ;)

    I was a moderator on a forum larger than GA for several years. I well know what mods and admins can and cannot do. At my site the admins could read member PMs and the mods could not. The forum software did not provide any means to read PMs other than your own. It was necessary to enter the SQL back-end and do a manual query to get the PMs. Only those with server admin access could do that. (Our admins had server admin access and our mods did not.)

    For the record, it is theoretically possible for someone with sufficient access to login to a member's account and read the PMs from there. It is also possible to query the SQL and get a member's password, it's even trivial. It is also possible to manually turn on a member's PMs even though the member has switched them off.

    I thought my point was important for the edification of any members who may be less sophisticated, just to clear the air so to speak. Well I've probably said too much, and expect this will be my last missive on the subject.
  19. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Advocat meant that the one wanting not to be harassed would freely disclose their PM's to the moderator in order to get results. You've read way too much in to that.

    Then you would know that there are two ways to access. One is through the forum's software, one is through the server. Vbulletin doesn't have any ways of getting to PM's through their software. Some admins of other forums lament that, I could care less to be honest.

    Passwords? If there is a way I don't know of it, nor cared enough to find out how one would do that. Why would an admin need someone's password anyway since they can just blank the account and delete it? Why were you so obsessed with all this private stuff on your forum? I mean JHC, I don't even know half that stuff, nor WANT to know.

    As already mentioned this was already posted in public a few years ago.
  20. Advocat

    Advocat Viral Memes a Speciality Staff Member

    That's precisely what I meant. Honestly, I don't know why people take a few words that mean precisely what they say, and then spin a story out of whole cloth from them. I said...

    "If the "no-contact" requester decides this gives him free rein to reverse-harass the other person, guess what? THEY can complain to the Mods... and action will be taken.

    Now, here's the part everyone -- in their flights into legalistic fantasy -- seems to miss. The Mods will look over the PMs and decide what the intent of each the parties was, and take action accordingly."

    I didn't say someone would access PM accounts of those involved, I didn't say that Mods had access to the database or PMs (which we most certainly don't)... and I never even went near the idea that somehow the Admins/Mods spy on people's PMs on a regular basis.

    I couldn't be bothered if someone offered me the chance on a gold platter.

    How this idea even came up is beyond my comprehension. Truthfully, the need for people to continue to try and find points for combative debate is ticking me off... and it takes one heck of a lot to do that!

    My whole post was about how people can report misuse of PMs to the Mods (which obviously means they would have to disclose the offending PM), but that we would look over the evidence and decide for ourselves what the intent of the PMs were. How much clearer can I get? :banghead:
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