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The Euro is done

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by ethics, May 14, 2010.

  1. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    1. US would do A LOT better if our idiots in administration would stop the friggin bailouts. Our economy is NOT out of the hole, and because of the spending, the recovery is VERY fragile. Our markets should NOT be THIS affected by what's going on in Greece. Spain? Yeah, a small quake but nothing like this.

    2. Eurozone is in deep doo doo. Not only because of their current economic state but the (historical) lack of leadership is even a bigger issue.

    3. China is lying about their numbers. There's growth, but not on the levels they are reporting. They still have a rotten core and that is underestimated by all markets.
  2. Swamp Fox

    Swamp Fox Veteran Member

    My other concern is how solid some US banks are, especially if more European nations go down the tubes.
  3. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    They lie about everything, and unemployment has been steadily rising over there and their state-owned banks play the funny money game daily. "Transparency" is a four-letter word in China.

  4. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    I don't disagree. Most US investors know this, btw. At least we have THAT going for us.
  5. John R. Beanham

    John R. Beanham Typical Aussie Male

    Hasn't the ECB undertaken to cover the debts of the 'piigs' to the tune of a Trillion dollars?

    That should cover the entire problem, and at least put off judgement day for a few years, and give enough time to get the dud countries in order.

    I know all that simply shifts debt from one pocket to another, but at least the new pocket does not have a hole in it. And I am sure the EU knows very well just how serious this all is, and what will happen if they don't fix it. They will do what HAS to be done.

    John B.
  6. Swamp Fox

    Swamp Fox Veteran Member


    I'm not up on the numbers, but, apparently, the gigantic amounts being given are not gigantic enough.
  7. John R. Beanham

    John R. Beanham Typical Aussie Male


    They can always do what the USG does, simply borrow another Trillion!


    John B.
  8. Swamp Fox

    Swamp Fox Veteran Member

    Sigh is right - just more of the same. Thing is, the US can get the loans from the private sector, but can the EU???
  9. John R. Beanham

    John R. Beanham Typical Aussie Male

    Good question, I do not know.

    Maybe the ECB can go cap in hand to the IMF and the World Bank. Does the UN have a piggy bank hidden away? How about our peace loving brothers in the Middle East?

    "A Trillion here and a Trillion there, and soon you are talking about REAL money".

    John B.
  10. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Guys, it's not just about the trillion being dumped on the problem. It's that the root of the problem is corruption.

    Here's what's going on.

    In order for the currency to not take a hit, the EUzone must come to the rescue of (now) PIIGS. What that means is not just dumping money on to the problem -- that's a loan anyway -- but a set of rules that MUST be followed in order for the country to be ready when the trillions run out.

    Think of a failing business, a burger business, right? It's going in to bankruptcy and when it does it will take a huge hit on the existing businesses in the area (just play along for now). The burger place brings a LOT of customers for other businesses, so in order to help the burger place, the other businesses offer a loan. BUT, the offer comes with a huge mandate for changing the way the burger runs its business. The Burger place agrees (hey, free money, beats going out of business) and everyone is happy.

    Well, almost, because the BBB (think of the rating agency) knows that the owner is the same guy who has been running the business like a game. He has been wasting money, he is drinking all the time, there's even rumors that the back alley way is a junkie selling point and the owner gets a cut. To conclude the problem, the owner is lazy as hell.

    Now I ask you, will dumping a loan on that burger business help?
  11. John R. Beanham

    John R. Beanham Typical Aussie Male


    I see your point, but I wonder at the bind the EU is in. If they allow the Euro to fall in a heap and become almost valueless, then the Euro 'idea' has failed, and perhaps the very idea of a 'European Union' has failed also.

    Yes I know that the EU is probably an idea that was doomed to failure all along, a bit like a North American colonies speaking French, Dutch, English and Spanish trying to amalgamate.

    Certainly as you say, the situation MUST change and drastically. And that goes for the USA as well!

    John B.
  12. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    It failed as soon as they let the PIIGS in to the EU. France, Germany, and UK, it would have been fine and thriving. Definitely would beat the USD. But they rushed all these countries in and... well, this is the result.
  13. Swamp Fox

    Swamp Fox Veteran Member

    I'm not so sure about France. But the thing is, the Euro will fail, and, in the end, so will Europe.
  14. John R. Beanham

    John R. Beanham Typical Aussie Male

    "But the thing is, the Euro will fail, and, in the end, so will Europe."

    Sadly, I agree.

    I suppose when you think of the idea of a 'United States of Europe' it was a dream doomed to failure. Too many languages, too many memories, too many differences, too many old scores still eating away.

    John B.
  15. Rebbeca

    Rebbeca Registered User

    Euro is the sign of unity of whole European countries so it must be saved.
  16. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Is there real unity (like you have the unity of the United States) or is it just one giant facade?
  17. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Right now, the euro (vs. USD) is at 1.1985, lowest in 4 years.
  18. Swamp Fox

    Swamp Fox Veteran Member

    There is no doubt now that the Euro is in peril, but I'm wondering why the currency traders aren't trying to push Greece and Portugal out of the Euro zone, like Soros did in the early 1990's.

    I'm in favor of that, so we can force these countries - and the continent - into making the structural reforms needed, but I'm concerned tha this may not be the time to do so, because even the US is hit with slow growth. IOW, I really, really don't know what to do, not that I'm in any position to do anything, of course. (Shrugs)
  19. John R. Beanham

    John R. Beanham Typical Aussie Male

    An interesting development,


    If this idea gets up it will kill confidence in European government debt. The 'security'(?) will be the word of an elected Government.

    "Do not lend to a country stronger than you, or consider it lost" (unknown) (The 'Lombards' I think)
  20. Swamp Fox

    Swamp Fox Veteran Member

    Well, I hope the Euro does die. Of course, I'm not sure if the Germans are the ones to lead Europe, given their history, but that's a topic for another thread.

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