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The bin laden letters

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Coot, Nov 24, 2002.

  1. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    Full texts of the recent bin laden letters are available at the Guardian Unlimited Observer. They can be found here and here. The first link is the letter to America and the second is the Call to Arms that is currently being circulated in Britain.

    These letters, if they are in fact written by him, provide an insight into his/thier cause. Whatever else he is, he's an intelligent man that has studied global history and his religion; no matter how slanted his view and warped his interpretation.
     
  2. -Ken

    -Ken Guest

    Boy, if that wasn't an interesting read.

    I was struck by this quote as it pointed out something Haywire
    has in common with Osama.

    <Small>From the letter,</small>
    "2) The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression,
    lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you."

    "(a) We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour,
    and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality,
    intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest. "

    <small>And later,</small>

    "Who can forget your President Clinton's immoral acts committed
    in the official Oval office? After that you did not even bring him to
    account, other than that he 'made a mistake', after which everything
    passed with no punishment. Is there a worse kind of event for which
    your name will go down in history and remembered by nations?"

    <small>And one I had to agree with,</small>

    "...total equality between all people, without regarding their colour,
    sex, or language." even though I may have lifted this out of context
    removing the religious overtones.
     
  3. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    Interestingthat sex is included. Yet his people treat women like dogs.
     
  4. -Ken

    -Ken Guest

    As a dog owner, I resent that!
     
  5. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    A piece of advice, Ken. Get rid of the dog, get a woman. They make better pets.
     
  6. -Ken

    -Ken Guest

    Thanks Robert, I really appreciate your advice.
    I'm thinking I should discuss this with the wife
    before I act on your suggestion though.

    I will let her know that you are in favor of it.
     
  7. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Ken, I tend to see Laden for the hypocrite he is. Equality among all? Is that what he meant when he ordered people to slam planes in to buildings full of people?

    I guess he meant mixed human ash.
     
  8. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    I am not sure that is a good idea. Wives can find the silliest reasons for a man not to do what he wants. Best to acquire the woman pet quietly and keep her out of sight of the wife.
     
  9. -Ken

    -Ken Guest

    Bob,

    You are truly the master and until one of our lady members
    comes in here, I will keep believing that.

    I was wondering if, perhaps, you had any last words? I mean,
    you have been attached to those things for all of your life.
     
  10. RRedline

    RRedline Veteran MMember

    And what ever happened to our support of Israel and our presence in Saudi Arabia? So basically, he is unhappy with us because we don't live the way we are supposed to live according to him and his version of Islam? Fuck him, and fuck anyone who doesn't believe in separation of church and state.
     
  11. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    Now Ken, we do not want the ladies to participate in this discussion. They just do not understand such man things.
     
  12. -Ken

    -Ken Guest

    RRedline,

    That was not his entire thesis. He has some points, which
    need to be addressed.

    For example, he states clearly he believes the Arab world
    has been continually attacked by the Western World. He
    specifically mentions Palestine and our support of Israel.
    Nothing new there!

    But (Thanks Ethics) how about these accusations:

    "You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian
    atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression
    against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against
    us in Lebanon."

    "You steal our wealth and oil at paltry prices because of
    you international influence and military threats. This theft
    is indeed the biggest theft ever witnessed by mankind in the
    history of the world."

    "Your forces occupy our countries; you spread your military
    bases throughout them; you corrupt our lands, and you besiege
    our sanctities, to protect the security of the Jews and to ensure
    the continuity of your pillage of our treasures."

    I don't believe there is anything unexpected in those accusations.
    It does show the ammunition he is using for propaganda.

    This one I found particularly disturbing:

    "What happens in Guatanamo is a historical embarrassment to
    America and its values, and it screams into your faces - you
    hypocrites, "What is the value of your signature on any
    agreement or treaty?"

    How do we address the breaking of a number of treaties, starting
    with our own Native American population?
     
  13. -Ken

    -Ken Guest

    Bob,

    Actually, I'm going to let the
    master "handle" the women.

    I will watch with great interest
    as you tell them what to do and
    where they can participate.

    <small> Where the hell is Techie with that damn popcorn?
     
  14. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    Following his line of reasoning, we might have been better off to have piled them into an airplane and flown it into the Mosque at Makkah.
     
  15. Advocat

    Advocat Viral Memes a Speciality Staff Member

    Reading bin Lauden's letter, I have to say that he'd probably make a good North American rabble-rousing speech writer.

    You likely couldn't get a better listing of the common prejudices/beliefs of the "masses" of the Middle East if you hired a professional spin doctor. Just about every misinformed (but commonly held) Middle eastern prejudice/belief is listed... along with a healthy helping of truth -- which, as we all know, makes the best lies when mixed in well.
     
  16. bruzzes

    bruzzes Truthslayer

    I know that these are a small part of the letters and proof of how one can take certain moral grounds and use them in various forms of argument.

    I too, wish in these ideals. Does that make me a terrorist?
    Of course not. Inserting these ideals and manipulating them in a direction is how the Devil works (according to my Catholic upbringing), that is, using a little bit of truth to make a lie believable.

    He is a very clever man, however misguided.

    Although the quotes above are idealistic in nature, in reality they are not functional in our present society without a complete return back to Puritanism.

    I fear a new Crusade.
    Terrorism is the action of a much larger war of religions.
    ...and that is what this is all about.
     
  17. fritzmp

    fritzmp Fire Fire For Effect

    While he clams his reason and purpose is for Ala. I see a man much in aw of himself and filled with self worth. Never did have respect for people who had people do things they themselves would not do. I wish he prove me wrong and detonate himself.
     
  18. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Somalia: Spent 3Billion dollars and 19 American lives in order to feed the Muslims.

    Support for Chechnya: Constantly was a thorn in Russia's side with Chechnya. It got so bad that we were on two opposite fields in Yugoslavia.

    Kashmir: We supported Pakistan Muslims while India was supported by Soviet Union in all of their wars.

    Lebanon: Another peacekeeping mission that claimed American soldier lives.

    Funny how he doesn't mention:

    -- Bosnia: How US lead NATO forces in stopping Milosevic and his atrocities against the Muslims.

    -- Israel: What would have been a very large Jewish country in places like Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon if not for the leash of the US.

    -- Kosovo: and it was unrelated to Bosnia war. Helped tremendously with Albanian Muslims.

    -- Egypt: $3.3 Billion dollars of US Foreign Aid annually

    I can go on, but you get my point.

    Talk to the leaders of the countries that are selling it. The people who put down freedom in order to be on top of the caste system. Funny how you didn't attack Saudi Arabia 20,000+ princes.

    You mean like feeding them good food, and giving these prisoners observe their religion freedoms of no pork and prayers? We are such barbarians to treat people like this. How dare they raise their guns to shoot and kill our fathers, sons, and brothers, and then expect... wait a minute... what DO they expect?

    Ah yes, the weakness. They expect that with our weakness for freedom and democracy we would just slap their wrists and shoo them on the asses back to Afghanistan.

    EDIT: P.S. Ken, I wasn't addressing you but Laden. In case that's not clear.
     
  19. limeygit

    limeygit Assume Sarcasm...

    If I was a betting man, which I sometimes am, I would put $20 on this letter not having being written by Bin Laden himself...
     
  20. -Ken

    -Ken Guest

    Ethics,

    Is the glass half full...

    There is hatred so strong here that fact makes no difference.
    Do his interpretations of the facts need countering? I believe so.

    I believe his point about the US not honoring our agreements needs
    some inspection.

    We profess to adhere to the Geneva Convention. Because we deem
    these people to not be prisoners of war does not allow us the right
    to skirt the Geneva Convention. I was opposed to this action when
    it was first announced because it sets a precedent. Has this world
    become so uncivilized as to completely ignore what few conventions
    of war we have all agreed on?

    If I were from another planet (yes, I know about the speculation here
    to that) I would have to wonder if I could trust the US. We ignore UN
    resolutions, which go against us. We ignored the World Court and we
    continued to mine the harbors of Nicaragua after being expressly
    ordered to stop. We topple governments to put other governments
    in power.

    Now before you dismiss this argument as "just another US bashing from
    that damn liberal" please consider their viewpoint.

    I have one major issue with his logic, he believes the American people
    can actually change the policies of the government. What is he smoking?
    If the last presidential election is any real indication, half the people in this
    country are for change (whatever that means to them) and the other half
    aren't overjoyed either.

    In fact, he has solidified hatred against his cause leaving anyone who
    might want to stand up and try to rationally present his case abandoned
    in a sea of deaf ears.

    One final thing, he's going to have quite a bit of difficulty forcing most
    of the people I know to convert.

    Limey,

    I am going to have to firmly disagree with you. I am sure Osama Bin
    Laden wrote every single word in that letter in much the same way
    George Bush (either George Bush, pick one) writes his own speeches.
     

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