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The American Emperor Has No Clothes

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by nitewriter, Jan 29, 2003.

  1. nitewriter

    nitewriter To Perceive Is To Suffer

  2. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Nationally, I agree with the article. International affairs, I disagree with the article.
     
  3. mikepd

    mikepd Veteran Member

    Bush is a great communicator? As opposed to President Reagan? Who are they kidding? President Reagan was much more adept at speaking and ad lib remarks.

    As for the 'secret court' comment, another bit of media hyperbole:

    "The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court was created in 1978 under the authority of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), and the particular section creating and governing the court is codified at 50 USC 1803. The FISC is empowered to consider any application for "orders approving electronic surveillance anywhere within the United States". (Note that there is no provision under this particular section that the surveillance have anything to do with foreign intelligence. Other sections of the statute clearly demonstrate that its mission is to combat intelligence and terrorism efforts by "foreign powers and agents of foreign powers".)

    The Court was created for the purpose of passing on requests for surveillance and physical searches that are aimed at foreign powers and their agents, and ensuring that the rights of "United States persons" are protected in the process. No finding of probable cause that a crime has been committed is required, as is required for search warrants issued by Federal and state courts.

    The existence of the court in question is no secret."


    There are valid parts they bring up with regard to security versus privacy issues, corporate greed, accountability and consequences, and foreign policy over the long term.

    As usual, they want to wrap it all up in a neat package, tied up with a string of one liners, flawed logic that makes for false assumptions. Nice to know their media is as screwed up as ours is. Unbiased journalism indeed. They ruin a piece with their slant and misinformation.
     
  4. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    I find myself in general agreement with the domestic criticisms as well, though a tax break would be a welcome relief as I face down Uncle Sam this year. :)

    I think almost anyone can have some criticism of the foreign policy aspects, but really, there are no real answers. If there was a glaringly obvious course to take, then that would be one thing; it does appear the choices are Do Something, or Do Nothing. I'd rather perform the former, which has been generally underutilized in the past, as opposed to the latter, which hasn't worked tremendously well in most instances. After all, the Chinese screwed with Clinton too, and he was one of their biggest advocates in recent years. And North Korea certainly didn't pan out real well.

    SM
     
  5. nitewriter

    nitewriter To Perceive Is To Suffer

    Originally posted by Steve Moore

    I think almost anyone can have some criticism of the foreign policy aspects, but really, there are no real answers. If there was a glaringly obvious course to take, then that would be one thing; it does appear the choices are Do Something, or Do Nothing. I'd rather perform the former, which has been generally underutilized in the past, as opposed to the latter, which hasn't worked tremendously well in most instances.

    -----------------------------------------------------

    The only thing I would like to add Steve, is that it's fine to do something,
    doing nothing is frustrating and potentialy dangerous.

    But when you do something try and make sure it's the right thing and not just anything.

    As we all know quick answers are not always the right answers.
     
  6. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Oh, agreed. But there is no direct path to rightness here. The only way to discover what the fruits of the labor might be is to get to work and hope for the best. To feel the administration--which is comprised of a quite remarkable set of agile thinkers--has not taken into account a wide variety of alternatives would be naive.

    SM
     
  7. yazdzik

    yazdzik Veteran Member

    Dear friends,

    I have stated my position, and agree with Mr Patrick Henry.


    Unless the states between the Mediterranean and the Arabian sea do not make certain that their internal squabbles affect out internal security not at all, then it is time to make certain that our grandchildren can say within our territorial jurisdiction that Mohammed sucks ass, because the first amendment allows it. Let someone from outside try to inflict punishment outside of our freedoms? We had no problem dealing with Japan and Germany, and there are graves near my house in Aachen of Americans whose honour we desecrate when allowing Islamic terrorists to threaten our secular culture with their poisoned religion. I have no desire to harm a soul, but unless the governments do not agree to keep the jihad out of our way, I have no desire to allow them to exist.

    My kids freedom cannot depend upon a fundamentalists tolerance, be it here, or abroad.

    Simply, unless there is absolute verifiable peace in the mid-east within thirty days, we go in, and everywhere. Neutral to all, protecting only our Bill of Rights. Jew or arab in the way? Think about it not even for a second.

    In case of any more religious violence, bombing a nightclub, or whorehouse, we can give notice to all inhabitant that within fifteen days the three holy cites will be levelled. We can remunerate the property damage, but if they cannot keep their religion in their territory from interfering with our freedom from religion(read Wallace, friends, Justice OConners opinion, and cut the religious bullshit,) we shall defend our security. Period. Dont like rap - I hate it - turn off the fucking radio. Dont like atheism - read your bible - even I do. Dont respect American territorial jurisdiction, and Bill of Rights, hope that your faith in an afterlife is real. Hang hookers in your country, but leave ours alone.

    Simple solution, if the islamic law countries do not agree to keep their jihads within their boundaries by treaty, we shall remove those boundaries, and the governments establishing them. Nicely, or not, as necessary. We may have to ration petrol for the next twenty years, but that is a small price to pay for the Bill.

    Same with China and North Korea. We shall not have the unilateral might we now have to protect ourselves from ideology. Bush will have sold it to corporations for cheapo sneakers. Thus, unless those who hate our tits and ass materialism agree to leave us alone, we take them out.

    Friend or foe.

    We should suspend all trade with the mid east, and freeze all assets until the governments agree to our demands. If the UN balks, withdraw from them , and expel their diplomats.

    If the jews want religion more than peace, give them a few days notice, and level Jerusalem, put it under UN control, if they agree, if not, US control, and let no one in for twenty-five years for religious purposes. Period.

    Until the boys in the sand agree to make nice, we need to keep their national defence under UN or US control. No armies for belligerent countries. Worked for Japan.

    For my kids to be able to be free from the curse of religion and those who wish to impose it upon others, I am willing to level civilisations. There were people in Boston a few years back who were even willing to give up tea. (That far, I am afraid, I may not be willing to go, but, as the only bona fide nutcase here, I have no problem annexing Darjeeling. Well, maybe a little. ;) )

    Agree to enforce a no jihad islam, or watch as the US takes out every possible military defence, and installs a government that will. Problems with that, lick my conservative ass. Or is that liberal ass? Or is it plain good old New Hampshire number plate idealism ass?

    As far I am concerned, until Judaism holds that a god who kills Egyptian babies is a cruel and evil being, and until Islam holds that no person should ever be hurt in the name of religion, or Christianity teaches that Jesus is the moschiach, but if you dont agree, cool, I have the legal right in this country to say they are all evil. I teach my kids that pesach is celebrating murder by god, so there. Take away my rights - try it, Saddam and Usama. Level LA, level NY, but the US constitution will prevail. With or without oil.

    If the jews want to fight about, let them do it over there, and if the arabs want to kill their own women, well, it is wrong, but what can we do?

    If the belief in Zion means my kids have to worry about flying to Disney world, bomb Tel Aviv first. Sorry, but Sharon is not ben Gurion. That is what is saddest.

    I have never desired war, any time, and still do not. To arouse a cowardly bleeding heart pussy to bombing cities requires immense evil.

    I has come to pass.

    The saddest part is, I am a real dove, who believes with a bit of reason and good will, we could sit down at the table and make this all work without so much as a paper cut. Why will no one give that route a chance, giving up superstition for peace?

    Why can we not learn compassion, so that freedom is bought with work, and not with blood?

    Yazdzik
     
  8. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

  9. nitewriter

    nitewriter To Perceive Is To Suffer

    Originally posted by Steve Moore
    :eek:

    My sentiments exactly Steve
     
  10. Sunriser13

    Sunriser13 Knee Deep in Paradise

    :thumbsup:
     
  11. Sunriser13

    Sunriser13 Knee Deep in Paradise

    By the way, it's my nomination for "Post of the Month"...
     
  12. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    I second that nomination.
     
  13. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Woah... I like.. Wonder if we can get Martin set for the white house in time for the elections?
     
  14. Sunriser13

    Sunriser13 Knee Deep in Paradise

    I'd damn sure vote for him!
     
  15. jfcjrus

    jfcjrus Veteran Member

    SOaB!
    Way to go Yaz!
    I think we (in the USA) fundamentally belive that every human has the right to live their life as they wish, as long as they do not screw with anyone elses right to do the same.

    Blowing up busses, nightclubs, markets, ships, airplanes, skyscrapers, etc, violates this fundamental belief and makes one a lunatic and a criminal, in our minds.
    This was never a secret. We've expounded this principle for many decades.

    And, for decades, many countrys and peoples have suffered at the hands of these 'fanatics'.
    And, for many decades, we've tried to reason with them through diplomatic channels.

    Then, they hit us directly and killed thousands of our people, on our own soil.
    Big mistake. It indeed taught us a lesson.
    That is; diplomancy hasn't worked with these folks.

    They now are going to experience the alternative.

    Regards,
     
  16. John R. Beanham

    John R. Beanham Typical Aussie Male

    Like zillions around the world, I sat in my lounge and watched the 'State of the Union' speech.

    For a man claimed by his opponents as unable to read and write ( true, someone claimed this on an Australian Forum) he did a damned good job. I saw NONE of the claimed 'Bushisms' I read about, and he was far more eloquent than I can hope to be. He had notes but seemed to rarely refer to them and I saw no evidence of a TV prompter. His eyes were constantly moving and not obviously reading anything.

    I know he did not write the words, but I am certain he would have vetted them and in the final take it is up to him to present them to the world and to do it convincingly.

    Just about the only media slant is the "warmonger going to war without a supporter to his name". Not ONE word on the AIDS drugs to be provided to Africa, not a word on Medicare, not a word of the economic stimulus that will in the end help the entire world.

    Given the events of the last 2 years I think he has done a damned good job, far better than Al Gore, I am certain of that.

    My only disappointment is his timetable in the War on Terrorism is far too slow. Sixteen months after PH, the USA was well on its way to Tokyo.


    John.
     
  17. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    But John, who's the enemy on the terrorism front? With Japan, we knew exactly where to go, and what to demolish. It's a far different animal now.
     
  18. John R. Beanham

    John R. Beanham Typical Aussie Male

    Biker,


    "who's the enemy on the terrorism front?"


    In my view the greatest enemy in this war is your own need for 'approval' and 'coalitions' and so forth.

    This 'morality debate' as I call it has been going on far too long. With 3000 "innocent civilians" murdered in NYC the USA is agonising about a few dead Iraqis. You have identified the "Axis of Evil"

    GO GET THEM! ( and tell the world, and the UN, to get stuffed)


    John.
     
  19. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    **chuckle** It's a bit more involved than that I would wager. Yes, Iraq needs a good "whoopin'", but terrorism is a bit like the Hydra. Cut off one head and two more pop up in it's place.
     
  20. John R. Beanham

    John R. Beanham Typical Aussie Male

    Biker,


    "but terrorism is a bit like the Hydra. Cut off one head and two more pop up in it's place."


    I am FIRMLY of the view that the ONLY way you will defeat 'terrorism' is to make the terrorists, and their families, and the Mullahs, and the dictators, indeed their very RELIGION far more terrified than they make you.

    When the Mullahs are TERRIFIED that the future of their religion will be sent back to the 7th century (BC?) with nothing but a camel and a bucket of sand to show for their 'Jihad', then they will desist due to their own TERROR.

    Make NO mistake, there IS a war going on between the Muslim religion and the non-Muslims of the world. Israel/Palestine is only the current catalyst, this war has been going on since Mohammed.


    John.
     

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