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Shuttle Disaster: The Real Cause?

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by FrankF, Feb 1, 2003.

  1. FrankF

    FrankF #55170-054

    Did the U.S. government engineer this disaster... hoping that worldwide sympathy for the lost American astronauts and their families would result in weakened opposition to a U.S. war with Iraq?

    (BTW... there was more than one shooter when Kennedy was assassinated. Nobody has ever walked on the moon. And crop circles really are made by aliens).


    Had to split off from this thread. Still in the same section though, and this should be used for any theories one may have.

    I urge for some of you to edit your replies since this thread is now split.
     
  2. Frodo Lives

    Frodo Lives Luke, I am NOT your father!

    Sadly this is a popular, if misguided, sentiment with some people that I have talked to about this. :(

    I agree with you 100% about the crop circles. Damn aliens. ;)
     
  3. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Frank,

    While I am not the most trusting guy on this government, there are a lot of better ways to gain sympathy from the world.
     
  4. FrankF

    FrankF #55170-054

    Geez... people are sensitive today. FWIW, I am just as upset as you are about the Space Shuttle disaster that occcured today, as are most decent people all over the world.
     
  5. mikepd

    mikepd Veteran Member

    I should edit my reply. Ok. This thread either belongs in Ricks Place as entertainment or UiF where it can be debated in the spirit it truly deserves.
     
  6. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    Frank, I know you can speak for yourself, but in your defence I have to say that the sarcasm was intended has been missed by some. The highly charged emotions people are feeling on this tragedy has resulted in you being flamed for insensitivity. If you hadn't added the piece about Kennedy, the moon and crop circles the sarcsam would have not been as obvious.
    I believe all you are saying is that it won't be long before some lunatic comes up with the "deliberate intentions of the US govt" argument and expect to be taken seriously. I think you may be right.

    Unfortunately you're sarcasm hasn't been appreciated here. A bit soon after the event perhaps.
     
  7. mikepd

    mikepd Veteran Member

    There are enough people who look for conspiracies at every turn in the world that they don't need any outside help. Sorry, Frank, but the whole thing just hit a big nerve.
     
  8. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    None of this matters. Iraq has the answer, and apparently it was not caused by a worldly conspiracy, but by God's will.

    Excerpt:

    Iraqis Call Shuttle Disaster God's Vengeance
    Sat February 1, 2003 03:24 PM ET

    BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Immediate popular reaction in Baghdad on Saturday to the loss of the U.S. space shuttle Columbia and its seven-member crew -- including the first Israeli in space -- was that it was God's retribution.

    "We are happy that it broke up," government employee Abdul Jabbar al-Quraishi said.

    "God wants to show that his might is greater than the Americans. They have encroached on our country. God is avenging us," he said.

    More: http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle....UFBACRBAELCFEY?type=worldNews&storyID=2152926
     
  9. Frodo Lives

    Frodo Lives Luke, I am NOT your father!

    Nuke Iraq, glass it over.
     
  10. Ravenink

    Ravenink Veteran Member

    when things are bad they are secular, when something tragic happens that they like it is god's will? Some god they have there.
     
  11. mikepd

    mikepd Veteran Member

    In the natural order of life, children bury their parents. Now, with maybe a few exceptions, parents will have to face the loss of children without anything to memorialize. I am not a parent, I can understand the logic of hearing the words 'You have lost your son or daughter'. From an emotional standpoint, if I were to hear those words as a parent, I truly think they might drive me insane.

    To think that a government would be capable of such a monstrous act with such a tremendous downside if found out is truly paranoid and flies in the face of all logic. However, the world is full of fools, blinded by agenda, who will never let facts get in the way of their twisted opinions. A complex system that is built by the lowest bidders has many ways to fail regardless of the number of inspections, dedicated people involved with the program because in any inherently risky endeavor-bad shit happens. We learn from it and move on. The shuttle was always meant to be an interim program, IIRC. We need to develop its successor and carry on with the exploration and acquisition of our understanding of ourselves and te universe. The spin-off from that research can provide yet unforseen benefits to all.
     
  12. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Mike, let's approach Frank's proposal from a different angle.

    First of all, and as I've mentioned in my first post in this thread, why would the US sabotage their own Space program to gain sympathy?

    I don't see any sympathy other than the de facto calls for condolences. Those things are shallow and hollow to me. So, in what way would the act of such a tragedy balance out the sympathy garnished?

    Answer: there isn't any balance in the risk vs. reward department.
     
  13. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell it happened due to intentional action by our government. That's the kind of accusation that is so out there that it should only be made when there is some evidence pointing in that direction. This is like accusing a mother of killing her child when there is no evidence. We know mohters kill children but the charge is so horrendous it should not be made until there is good cause to think so.
     
  14. mikepd

    mikepd Veteran Member

    Exactly, Shiny. It''s also such a huge negative that once it gets bandied about, it will never be stomped out. There are already calls in the media for shutdown of the shuttle program, saying the only reason the ISS exists is to keep the shuttle flying and other recursive logic. I believe these people are wrong, manned missions will always be needed. Not everything needs to be done with humans but humans always need to be in space, under the ocean, in the other places on the earth where knowledge can be gained. Pushing the boundaries always carries a cost, be it financial or in lives. History has shown in the long run that we have benefited from the results and the cost has been worth it. The explorers know the risk and go ahead anyway. We should do no less.
     
  15. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    I can't see any real motivation for flaming a $2 billion dollar spacecraft that pushes back the boundaries of science with every liftoff, as well as symbolizes the hopes, dreams, and aspirations of the American people.

    It would be one thing if they flamed it and then claimed the Iraqis or al Qaeda did it, but there's just no chance either could have caused such an event. The odds of it happening through external influence are remarkable; it would take a nation to bring down the space shuttle at that altitude.

    There are some theories; a micrometeor strike is possible, and unmeasurable by the shuttle crew. This is more the stuff of science fiction, though it is certainly within the realm of fact, as well.

    For myself, I've been looking at the footage of that chunk of foam that hit the orbiter on lift off. In the press conferences, they said it exploded into dust when it hit the orbiter; in the footage, there's still enough cohesive mass left to blaze into a momentary plume the second it hits the rocket plume. It gets incinerated in a second, but at a range of about 25 feet behind the shuttle; I think it was more massive than we were led to believe.

    If I were calling the shots, I'm not saying I'd get on the horn and command Columbia to initiate a breakaway and return to Canaveral. But so far, that is the only measurable event of which we have definitive proof; that this is outside the normal envelope of flight operations is a definable constant, albeit not unprecedented. But honestly, by the time a full impact analysis could be completed by the folks on the ground, Columbia would be well into establishing its orbit. So unless someone was willing to scrub the flight right then and there and get the process going, there was nothing else which could have been done.

    SM
     
  16. Jedi Writer

    Jedi Writer Guest

    When Challenger blew up there was a CW legend or story going around with the usual conspiracy wackos that a Russian trawler off the coast of Florida had this magnetic beam weapon and that it caused the "accident."

    (I am not making any of this up!)

    Any current theory of foul play to me has the same credibility and relevance of the magnetic ray gun plot!
     
  17. immortal one

    immortal one 501st Geronimo

    Cracks in the wing of the Columbia.

    http://www.looksmart.com/r?lh&panel=news{day=Mon{cat=TopStories{art=wed/dq/Qus-space-israel-cracks.RD9C_DF3{colorQus-space-israel-cracks.RD9C_DF3=FFFFFF
     
  18. mike

    mike mesmerized

    What exactly is that supposed to be? Certainly not -102's wing.

    photoshopped. poorly too.
     
  19. immortal one

    immortal one 501st Geronimo

    Excerpt from the Israeli daily Maariv.

    The photograph was extracted from footage taken by a camera onboard the shuttle during a live satellite video conference between Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Colonel Ilan Ramon, the first Israeli to travel to space.

    During 15-minute conversation with Sharon and other Israeli officials, Ramon offered to share his view of Earth from the shuttle.

    The video caught part of the shuttle's left wing, showing two "long" cracks, according to the paper.

    The fissures could have been the cause of the technical problems experienced by the shuttle which led to its breakup over Texas, 16 minutes before it was due to land last Saturday, the paper charged.

    Maariv wrote that "even if NASA had discovered the cracks that appeared at take-off, it would not have been able to do anything" to save the crew.
     
  20. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    I don't believe I have ever seen the object on the wing beyond the cracks, the object that looks like the stack for my toilets on my roof. Of course, I have never used the toilet on the shuttle............
     

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