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Sex Slaves

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Biker, Jan 2, 2003.

  1. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Apparently the billions of dollars we've spent in the Balkans has done nothing to curb corruption. As a young military troop stationed overseas, I'll readily admit that I, too, have visited the occasional "house of ill repute" without giving much thought to what goes on in the background.

    This <a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/842092.asp?0cv=CB21" target="blank">article</a> has given me some serious food for thought, as well as causing me to rethink the whole prostitution issue.
  2. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    This is correct...and odd, because I posted this article here months ago. :p

    Damn new people!


    P.S.: MSNBC ran this as part of a four-part series in April 2002, I think.
  3. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    As some of you know, this is a hot issue for me. I've been personally involved in trying (silly me) to do publicize this both physically and via internet.

    I first encountered the issue when I was in Ukraine in 1994. Since then, I've been very active in getting the US government involved.

    It's actually how I met Dr. Kelly, who was, at the time, introducing me to women who were abused, raped, kidnapped, orphaned via separation from their kids and family.

    If the governments in Europe decided to actually curb this tomorrow, it would have been done. There is absolutely no interest in doing this. The roadblocks I got with a few of us called the B-team, was pathetic, dangerous, and unfortunately costly.
  4. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Really? And the US has zero interest in the matter?

  5. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    In fairness to them, the US are slaves to the governments of the perpetrating countries. Czech republic, Hungary, Gerorgia, Israel, and Austria with Germany being the biggest perpetrators in the manner.

    As Dr. Kelly how many roadblocks these scum set for us.
  6. yazdzik

    yazdzik Veteran Member

    Dear Friends,

    This is something I have, as well, experienced firsthand, and am not willing to let slide.

    There is no reason for those countries where neither gender equality nor modern anglo-american concepts of civil rights exist to understand even the objection.

    There was a campaign slogan to try to rid the German
    workplace of the "sexetary" mentality, "Nein heisst nein." Most german management types laughed out loud. One aquaintance of mine saw the poster at the bus stop, and told me, "Ich bin der chef, nein heisst was ich sag' es heiss'"(I'm the boss, no means what I say it means.) I was once asked by a neighbour, hearing I was about to go to Bucharest for six weeks, to bring him back a girl, as he handed me eight thousand marks. He told me, it was alright if I broke her in a little first.

    I spoke to the polizeiintendant, sort of the commissioner, and an opera fan, and he said I had to leave it be, as there was little he could do. These chaps had a sex culture, there was an investigation, and they were trying, without causing revolution, to ameliorate the situation. I asked why he could not be arrested, and the truth was there, who would believe me, and, he would be fined and home again before dinner, since nothing had yet happened. Were I to bring the girl, I would be an accomplice, and my testimony not probative. (Opposite of US law, by the way.)

    My daughter's friends father, my upstairs neighbour, and I were talking about travelling, and the father told us, and the neighbour concurred that the Thai girls were going downhill, as the really nice ones had gotten "used up," and what was left after the aids crisis was the country bumpkins. As were they talking about cigars, or wine.

    Few outside the big cities here can understand this. Sure, even in the small town where I go to the country, there are a couple of girls near the park on a Saturday night. We are not talking about that. These are women, the Euro-sex-slaves, often young, beaten and taken from what little homes they have left, and sold as toys.

    Nothing in me is puritanical, as you all well know, nor do I have anything, really, against the Paris type working girl. They are pros, and many of them, in spite of it all, do not hate what they do. The idea of slavery being practiced, in 2003 shocks even me. I remember the Ostbahnhof, underway one night to Neustrelitz, a little girl, romanian, which I mutter, but do not speak, asked mne if I wanted her. For the night, the week, or the month. Would I like her little brother as well. Ages, probably 15 and 13. I spoke to her a little more, and found out she had been bought as an itinerant bride by an East German bureaucrat, then left to work the streets after her month was up. I told her to wait, but, of course, when I came back with the police, she was gone. They laughed at me, asking what I would do with all of them. Help the n***ers? (best I can come up with for schwarze schwein) Jail them? Not enough room in either the hotels or jails in all Berlin.

    Ultimately, though, it is the mentality of women as whores, from the wife to the girl in the gutter that makes the sex trade prosper. I do not mean the halfway normal call girls, as you all well know, but the vile abusive trade, of things we cannot, in our most wicked moments fathom ourselves doing. The sale of our midnight fantasies, made real. Repress the fantasies, no. But to act upon hate? Upon misogyny?

    Do I wish to be back in Germany, conducting opera, having a steady job, in a culture where theatre is still important? I cry myself to sleep every night.
    Do I want my daughter there, instead of a bright younh scholar, a hole, a toy? No.
    Is the attitude among many European businessmen and balkan fleshrunners so depraved that people are literally bought and sold?
    Who will believe me?
    Leon? Dr R? Anyone?
    The best spies are not those who copy secrets. Their information is crucial but not useful. Those of us who went to bars and listened to the great unwashed, who could feel the living being of a country, we knew.
    Laugh me off this site, but, it will not change the facts. Slavery is alive and well in Burcharest, to say nothing of the slavic and balkan states.
    The attitude begins with the nice middle class managers who take a week in the far east to sign some papers and relax. Who expect, back at home, a little massage from Heidi after lunch. To whom no means anything they make it mean.
    My dear friends, you have heard, but you have not seen.
    Look in any Sonntag under sex therapy. These are not psychiatrists, they take no insurance.
    Buying a bride, the bride buying a resident's visa.

    We need to re-read in re: Somerset, and wonder what the hell went wrong.

    Anyone who wonders how such a kindly old man can be so enamoured of the US Bill of Rights, and tolerance for all men, ought to walk up to an ice cream parlour in Bucharest, near the Athenée. Look like a wealthy foreigner, and see what you can take home. For less than the cost of a new car, you can have a romanian au pair. In every orifice, as long as you want. Just get her the papers to live in a land of hard currency.

    Funny, I never thought of the irony until this very moment. That night, I went to see Butterfly.

  7. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Well, i do know that Americans use these women as well. I've since lost contact with him, but I did know a company grade officer who was there as part of one of the S-FOR missions. This was before I knew anything about this stuff, going back about five years, but I'd love to hear his tales now.

    I think the US could probably use some muscle in this issue and get some stuff done.

  8. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    You folks want to interfere with what our more conservative friends would call a market outcome?
  9. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Damn Martin, sounds like you've been there done that, as I have except from a different perspective. Since we are being open, let me do the same gesture.

    To those that didn't know but Perry is a former KGB agent from the SU, I met him a while back. He stuck with me because despite his past, he is a good man, who wants to do good. He was on board as well from the Sovie side. His daughter disappeared and even now he seeks her. His ties were strong and he loves her dearly. She was just a teenager who wanted to do secretarial work over seas. (I've asked him if it's ok to reveal this, he gave me the nod).

    Perry, who's real name I dare not disclose, risked his life numerous times in order to know where his daughter is. It's been over 8 years now, and he, as I, fear the worse. He told me once, through some alcohol and tears, that he does it so other fathers can get to see their daughters. He has, as of this day, saved 14 girls out of sex slavery. I don't know how he does it, nor do I care, but he is very effective and he beams everytime he sees a reunion. I've yet to see him ask for any compensation.

    One day I fear he will no longer log in to this forum, and I will know why. I hope I never live to see that day.

    Omar has been dealing with this from Middle East and mostly Israel. His diplomatic ties enable him to cross borders without too much hassle. To date, Omar's successes has enabled 167 girls to go back to mostly former Soviet Union but some from Greece and even Italy. Israeli government is vehement in helping and Omar has some shots of IDF and himself after the operations. I just wish he would take it easy and stand aside all the time so he doesn't get in the way of any bullets, if any.

    Dr. Rogers has been at all fronts, battling sex slave trade as well as other atrocities. She has been a tremendous source for us all.

    Me? After we botched one approach with my team that had the girl that was working with us raped and beaten, I was done with it on the personal level. I will never get rid of the guilt of that, no matter how much it wasn't my fault. My writing seems to work better than my stomach and my emotions can handle. The only happiness I found was catching one of the Johns and beating the living shit out of him. Till this day I doubt he can function with all of his equipment.

    Anyway, it seems like something out of the movies, but trust me, there is no joy, the cards are constantly stacked against us, and the governments love what they have accomplished with their toys.

    Like I said initially, if EU governments (even Israelis) wanted to rid of this tomorrow, it would happen. They love this shit and preach to others about how we should act.

    If you want to know the roots of my bitterness towards Europe, the EU, and their hypocritical assholes, look no further than this thread.
  10. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    We are early in the month of January. In his post Yazdzik has shared real experiences regarding the subject and has illuminated the societal ills behind it and given powerful voice to what our country and its standards can mean to the world.

    I nominate Yazdzik's post for POM, January 2003.
  11. Advocat

    Advocat Viral Memes a Speciality Staff Member

    Useful info on trafficking in women:

    Coalition Against Trafficking in Women:

    International Trafficking In Women to the United States

    Trafficking in Women - A comprehensive European Strategy from the Council of Europe

    Campaign Against the Trafficking Of Women and Girls

    Minnesota Center Against Violence and Abuse Clearinghouse on Trafficking in Women and Prostitution
    -- many resources, organizations, online articles
  12. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Thanks Advocat. Although, I've exhausted a lot of letter writing campaigns, it would be a tremendous help if others went here: http://www.hrw.org/about/projects/traffcamp/intro.html and clicked "WHAT YOU CAN DO".

    If anyone needs a template for a letter, let me know.
  13. jamming

    jamming Banned

    I have seen this so many times guys that I would go back to my cot or other accomodation and cry silently asleep, at first. This is something that you cannot explain to someone who doesn't know about it. This is one thing that makes the resurgent communists point at their former governments with pride and say it wasn't that bad back then. As though the other abuses were somehow worthwhile because this wasn't as bad.

    The thing to me is that is was so prevelant in many countries, Philippines, Germany, and other places. It makes me flinch everytime a European talks about America's Sexual Problems. The issue is not only a European one it is worldwide, I would like to see Feminists pointing out this problem in our country but that's probably only going to happen by a very small minority of them.

    The United States and others of British heritage (law-wise) implemented some of the first humane laws, which social workers used to free other chattel such as women and children. Unfortunately it is only beginning to take hold in the rest of the World,, now and not very quickly. When people bash America, these are the things that hang in the back of my mind. When I or others have put our lives on the line at keeping this garbage away from our continent. Oh its still here but it is oppressed and in the background, not open and as wide spread.

    Every time I hear of a "dirty cop" being prosecuted, I thank God for the ones out there that are not dirty here. The problem is that much of this issue would never raise an eyebrow in some jurisdictions in Europe, it would be considered normal business for the local gendarmes. Be aware that this does happen, where Americans are too, but it is not officially condoned as it is in some armies.

    The guys that worked for and with me were professionals, we did not tolerate this kind of crap amongst ourselves and made that known as soon as we could, but we were a tight knit community. My Africa experience during a regime change is where we ignored orders, to assist some people who were our friends to make it across the border it cost me my best friend. But he had wanted to go and I have to live with that. We could not go away knowing what laid in store for them, we wouldn't have slept at night, at all(as it is I just have occassional nightmares).

    I not saying that the "guys" were saints, but we did not take advantage of people nor tolerate those who did. Ken you wonder about how Americans are or are not respected, we have our good and bad. There is a whole lot of good here and I frankly do not care if we are respected by people who condone or participate in these activities. Everytime you pick someone who you think may be an OK guy, I think of the OK guy's I saw abusing people.

    Advocate, I think I told you once that there were some Marines that had heard about the Somoli Boy before he was killed that wanted to go and get him and if needed kill any Canadians that stood in the way. I who they were working with and their SGT, stopped them and it kills me to this day that I did. Despite the official reports of that incident it was not a one time thing, nor was it just that one night. If I seem hard on Canadians, it is mainly because I wasn't that night.

    As I am trying to point out even the best cultures have this in them, which is why I feel "Civilization is a Thin Veneer or the Rough Wood of Barbarianism." we must fight it every day or the day you are to tired or forget that this is possible, is when it happens in the most unexpected places. Ken and Techie, don't get me wrong, I love your optimism and striving for a better world.

    I too try for a better world, but I realize that expediants are sometimes necessary not out of ease, but there are only so many alligators that you can have chomping at you and live. Sometimes we have to go back and kill the Alligators that were once chomping on the other Alligators, with us on their side. however, it does not mean we knew that they were going to continue to grow into Alligators, sometimes they shed their skins and become something else. Or they live to an old age and die and they are the last one big enough to take or keep in control.

    It is a lot like they way Rome saw the Barbarians as a fire at the end of their time, the Legions kept putting out the fires on the roof of the house. We need builders which stay at home and figure out a way to fire proof the structure. Just don't leave us short of material or support, because then you'll find the fire is in your home.

    Sorry to Ramble.
  14. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    Yes Please.
  15. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Amazing how one thread opened up a flood of thoughts and feelings.

    This morning, I feel as I was back in EE, with the same feelings. It's dark and rainy here as well, very appropriate weather.

    Jim and others, thanks for sharing.

    Coot, I will get you something this evening and post it on the forum.
  16. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Thought about this at great length last night and this morning. We talk about affecting change in the governments, but maybe we're trying to bite off more than we can chew.

    I think we need to start at the most basic level. Talk to the troops, talk to the basic "Joe" that visits some of these houses. As Martin said, there are those that are the true "professional", but there are other places that aren't set up like that. Taiwan and the Phillipines are two places I've been that readily come to mind as far as being outside the norm, if one can say that.

    I like to think that most of us are decent deep inside, and once we know the story of what goes on behind the scenes, we would begin to affect change right then by not patronizing such an establishment. Once enough know, then and only then can true change come about.
  17. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member


    Great post, bro. I was going to add some instances of unreal barbarism I've witnessed and the personal effects of such, but I figured, why bother? :)

  18. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    So very true...this is an issue where one might think an individuals political leanings might be automatically excluded, but heaven forbid, those who see the vagaries of life through their political convictions.

    To bring us back more to the point...

    What can the international community do about this particular instance in the Balkans? Our militaries are colocated in the area, and can for at least a limited time impose some laws. I'm not above using them for this, and more importantly, I know the vast amount of US troops there would feel good about doing this duty.

    What then?

  19. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    We are discussing sexual slavery, again. For those so inclined, the idealogical discussion was split off into UiF. You may find and peruse it at your leisure.
  20. jamming

    jamming Banned

    We need to only use our militaries in support of definable objectives, Steve. This particular issue will require a cultural change and long term Police-like Involvement.

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