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Remote hacking of cars now possible

Discussion in 'Bits & Bytes' started by dsl987, Jul 21, 2015.

  1. dsl987

    dsl987 Member

    This is some scary stuff, and I'm happy my truck is 11 years old and pretty low-tech.

    Hackers Remotely Kill a Jeep on the Highway—With Me in It | WIRED

    "When Miller and Valasek first found the Uconnect flaw, they thought it might only enable attacks over a direct Wi-Fi link, confining its range to a few dozen yards. When they discovered the Uconnect’s cellular vulnerability earlier this summer, they still thought it might work only on vehicles on the same cell tower as their scanning phone, restricting the range of the attack to a few dozen miles. But they quickly found even that wasn’t the limit. “When I saw we could do it anywhere, over the Internet, I freaked out,” Valasek says. “I was frightened. It was like, holy fuck, that’s a vehicle on a highway in the middle of the country. Car hacking got real, right then"
  2. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    It's been possible for some time now. Thieves have been using wireless devices to fool the onboard computer systems in vehicles to unlocking the doors for a couple of years now. Problem is, the manufacturers are doing their level best to prevent that from becoming widespread knowledge.

    I've been pretty vocal about the lack of security in vehicle onboard systems, and this issue is only going to get worse before it gets better.

    Vehicle 5 Star Safety ratings should also include computer systems | Global Affairs

    This also has a huge bearing on why manufacturers are reluctant to harden their systems.

    Carmakers to tech partners: Keep your hands off our data - StarTribune.com

    They see a huge dollar bonanza and don't want to see that disappear in a puff of smoke.
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2015
  3. dsl987

    dsl987 Member

    I'm aware of the earlier stuff on unlocking a door with a wireless device, but hacking a cars brakes/engine via an any internet connection is on a completely different level.
    I'd be upset if somebody broke in by spoofing the remote and stole some CD's or my spare change in the center console, but I'd be really upset, if not dead, if somebody cuts my engine on the freeway, or worse the brakes. Now I'd don't have to worry so much about my vehicle which is 2004 F150 and not exactly high tech, but it just crossed my mind that I rented a vehicle last week while on vacation that had U-connect with the auto-sensing door unlockers.
  4. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Imagine what would happen if you could do this with a "self drive" vehicle?

    Those who are rushing head long into putting as much technology as possible into a vehicle are in for a rude awakening the first time someone causes mayhem on a freeway due to a system vulnerability that was exploited.

    If it were to happen to Google, the resulting lawsuit would probably bankrupt the company (which may not be such a bad thing :D ).
  5. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

  6. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

  7. MemphisMark

    MemphisMark Old school Conservative

    Just to make it clear, the "Auto-sensing door unlockers" are not quite what you think.

    The car has to register an event (someone trying to open a door by grabbing the handle/pressing the button on the handle) at which time it broadcasts a signal. That signal is received by the keyfob which in turn transmits back the (hopefully) correct authentication code, at which time the doors "magically" unlock.

    Using an advanced digital version of the old hand-held CB walkie-talkies, one thief walks up close to the home of the owner for the target vehicle. The second thief then tries the handle. The car sends its signal, which is received by the second thief's walkie-talkie and transmitted (on a second frequency) to the first thief's walkie-talkie which broadcasts the signal to the keyfob. The authentication then runs back down the line and the car unlocks, without sign of any forced entry. The insurance therefore will not pay.

    The only way to stop this is to keep your keyfob in a faraday cage (i.e. Fridge/Freezer) so it won't get the signal. If you're out in town and this happens, no faraday cage. :-(
  8. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Nope. No need to even touch the vehicle.
  9. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Why a cybersecurity solution for driverless cars may be found under the hood

    As much as I hate to say it, the government needs to put the brakes on the mad rush to bring an autonomous vehicle to fruition. While the article gives a possible solution to some incidents, it wouldn't be a cure all. And the data privacy issues are mind boggling in of themselves.

    Ford already provides Synch in all their cars and I'm not sure if you can even order one without it. It's going to get to the point to where you won't even be able to purchase a new car that isn't connected which is absolute crap.
    Allene likes this.
  10. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    You don't need to tell anything to the govt. Automated cars will not be happening in the next 30 years. Mark my words. The problem is not tech, the problem is people/govt/society.
    Allene likes this.
  11. Allene

    Allene Registered User

    Well, that's good news!
  12. Allene

    Allene Registered User

    What does an automated car do when it meets a moose on the highway?
  13. SixofNine

    SixofNine Jedi Sage Staff Member

    Moose and squirrel must die!
    ethics likes this.
  14. Allene

    Allene Registered User

    We hope! Where did the squirrel come from? Is that the driver?
  15. Allene

    Allene Registered User

    Oh no, there's no driver, so the squirrel is the passenger?
  16. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    One of the more interesting aspects of autonomous driving software is the ethical considerations. Do you program the car to kill the pedestrian or the occupant of the car if it all goes south in a hurry? Obviously, there hasn't been much discussion on that end. And it's doubtful the companies that are in a mad rush to bring a "working model" to market are in a great hurry to address that issue as well.
  17. Allene

    Allene Registered User

    I was wondering about that. That's why I asked about the moose. Unless those cars are made out of indestructible materials, the outcome would be one dead moose AND one dead passenger.
  18. Arc

    Arc Full Member

    I haven't driven since 2010 when I got rid of my car. Never replaced it and likely never will. If I did buy a new car I would skip or if possible discontinue many of the high tech features. The first one is sensor activated braking when moving forward where the system senses something as an obstacle with potential for you to hit in whatever given circumstances and car automatically brakes.
  19. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    The good news is that the cars that come with that are out of your (and my) league. It's a very expensive add-on.

    And Tom, yes, the insurance industry is the variable no one is talking about. A trillion dollar variable.
  20. MemphisMark

    MemphisMark Old school Conservative

    This is from 2014, I've seen other older articles: Should Your Driverless Car Kill You to Save Two Other People?

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