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Discussion in 'General Questions' started by pink slip, Sep 12, 2003.

  1. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Ditch, it's offensive because the above is not true and you keep harping on this. Midranger mentioned scrapping the ENTIRE system and yet he hasn't even bothered on nominating NOR voting (a mere click of the button). People always equate this system to the one in BBR and can't get over the fact that THIS system is merely a recognition of a well written post with a great point.Nothing more.  

    April Nominees:
    Robert Harris' Post on western ideas, outlook and living.
     melpomene's post on Arab Psyche
     Stevent's post on principals that made our country
     Shinytop's post on the value of a college degree 

    April voters: altmiket   Coot   Coriolis   ditch   ethics   jfcjrus   MalAdjusted   mikeky   mikepd   Robert Harris   Techie2000  melpomene ShinyTop   Sunriser13   hipifreq   Matrix   Steve Moore.

    The only American topic there is Stevent's demanding certain things from this country. Three out of four nominated threads were not even about America.

    Let's go to May:

    ShinyTop's topic post: For Your Consideration, a Non-Believer 
     fiona_campbell's topic post: A Letter from a Once Broken Child

     IamZed's post on commitment in relationships[/URL]
     Misu's post on being respectful and tolerant of people's choices
     Another ShinyTop topic post: The Other Cost of Iraqi Freedom
     Bob Harris' post on a historical look at the tobacco industry

    People who voted:
    jfcjrus   ShinyTop Techie2000 ethics fiona_campbell Violet1966 yazdzik    bruzzes   cydweeks   IamZed  melpomene M1TankCommander Matrix   mikepd  BigDeputyDog Coriolis  Robert Harris   

    Out of SIX nominated posts, ONE was about America and that's Shiny's BASHING of the US.


    Let's go to June:

    ShinyTop's Post on Racism nominated by Fiona
     Martin/Yazdik's Post on Gun Rights nominated by ethics
     Techie2000's post on children and leadership nominated by Misu
     Biker's post on flag burning nominated by Martin/Yazdik
     Sachridities post on Children, Soceity, and Sexuality nominated by Martin/Yazdik

    People who voted in June:

    ethics DemiGoddess   mikepd   Techie2000   eskimo   Wacko    Biker
     Coriolis   cydweeks   fiona_campbell   IamZed   melpomene   Violet1966 

    There were two posts out of five that revolved around the topic of the US. Not one praises the US, unless you count Biker's "I spent 20 years defending people's right to protest and say what they want. As much as I hate seeing the flag burned, I'd spend another 20 years defending people's right to do it."

    And yet again, out of all of the topics above, NONE of the people complaining in this thread, have voted nor nominated not even on issues that had ANYthing to do with the US.

    I think I covered July and Aug/Sept or do you want me to go over that as well?
  2. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    The original post:

    I didn't read this as "America Bashing".

    What I DID see it as was an allegation of bias towards the management of this site.

    As has been stated before, those posts that are nominated for PoM or PoD are nominated by members who care enough to do so. If you don't nominate or vote for the post of the month, I fail to see how one can question the staff here for being biased towards patriotic posts as it isn't the "staff" that does the picking and choosing. It's the membership of this site that does the choosing. And if the membership is being taken to task for being biased, I'll borrow Cop's line and bite my tongue as well but not for the reasons you may think.

    Let me also add the voting for July's PoM was dismal. I tend to hold the same view here as I do in the real world. If you don't care enough to vote, I don't want to hear about any complaining about who or what won after the vote was tallied.
  3. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member


    Copz asked you for example, you never answered, only called him overly sensitive. Not only are you wrong with patriotic posts even being NOMINATED you went as far as say that those patriotic posts are winners over others --non-patriotic--?

    And no one sees this being as offensive?
  4. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    I'll answer this one with a lovely post by Sunriser when in the July PoM voting thread:

    Screw points - the POM is not a popularity contest.

    In my opinion, it is simply a way of expressing appreciation and recognition of something that is outstanding. Period.

    Should one choose not to select a "favorite" post, that's perfectly fine. Conversely, there are those who enjoy giving the additional pat on the back. Either way, it is still thrilling to be singled out as a contender for the honor...

  5. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    Good, I'm glad you think that Bob because there has been no bashing. I think we are all mature enough here to discuss any topic, regardless of its sensitivity.

    I was hoping this thread might have advanced to the stage where the question that has been asked by a number of members here in other threads..."why does the rest of the world criticise the US so much?" gets an answer or atleast an attempted answer. One of the ways that is going to happen is for those outside the US to offer answers. Well its just possible that the high level of public patriotism demonstrated by Americans that gets so much air time in all forms of the media throughout the world, is offensive and over the top to people of a lot of other nations. Of course it is your right to show all the partirotism you want to your country, but if you want to strut the world stage you need, amoung other things, a thick skin. You have to expect a lot of criticism from those who are offended by your prescence and your style. The more culturally different the country is where you do your strutting, the more offended the locals will be.
    Copz, feel free to ask your god to bless your country. Just dont be surprised when not everyone on the planet feels the same way as you do. There are other points of view from your own.
  6. IamZed

    IamZed ...

    Oh, its a valid bitch. Even if we dont intend to be all pro right wing American, the times are dictating that stance to some extent. War brings that out of a culture. We are all there is in the news at times now. Nothing else matters as much on earth as what we might fuck up next, and we talk about it, perhaps endlessly.
    This does hurt the global aspect of the site. Even though we are the ones on the world domination war rampage about now, that does not merit a casual approach to the strife and struggle of others. That is, the ones we dont want to make war on, you know.
    I for one will try harder to make myself more knowledgeable of foreign issues as they are commented upon here. Even outrageous news opportunities in any one country should be leavened by an ear to the voice of the rest.
    We also should remember we are not the only country at war. I think that is overlooked a lot.
  7. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Ditch (and Zed) this is a GENERAL QUESTIONS forum, and the original post of this thread was questioning the run of the forum particularly to the voting of the PoM's. When provided with decent amount of evidence you now want to know something that you can merely ask in the America's forum? Go there and post away and I am sure you will get some great answers.

    Blaming the forum for the way the MEDIA articulates around the world is nonsense and non-sequitur. Let me know if you wish to answer the questions presented to you regarding the original topic and the answers of others, as well as myself have provided here.
  8. IamZed

    IamZed ...

    I know we drifted into an off topic topic. I for one have no objections if you take things like that and simply pitch them where you think they really belong. Even the trash can I wouldnt care about. Moving things is an easier goal to accomplish than controlling them.
  9. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    OK. My poor expression here. The above statement was a poorly worded agreement with your earlier post. I am not intending to be bitching one bit by saying the above. My meaning was, to put it more accurately, that the tone, mood or general feeling at GA is bound to be American with such a large number of American members. No more, no less. No bitching intended.

    Also, I think the word partiotism is being given perhaps too broad a meaning here, by me. Certainly that is the theme in some posts. If I could come up with a better word to use I would do so. As its late here I'll leave it until the morning.

    I what? I dont think so. My mention of the "high level of patriotism demonstrated by Americans that gets so much air time in the media" in no way implicates this forum as having any part in that. Now if you want to talk of being offensive, then that is an offensive comment. Unless of course you take it that I meant GA is a form of media that gets displayed around the world and is responsible in some way? But solely to blame, of course not. The membership might be getting bigger but theres a long way to go before GA has that level of world wide influence.
  10. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    Yes. I agree, this has got OT so an appropriate thing would be to move it IMO.
  11. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    The membership is going to post about things that affect them in some way. Here's a listing of the top posters on GA.

    ethics 12812

    Robert Harris 7784

    Steve Moore 4726

    ShinyTop 4621

    cydweeks 4488

    Misu 3869

    Coot 3850

    domhain 3500

    Techie2000 3160

    Biker 3114

    fiona_campbell 2980

    IamZed 2584

    Steve 2370

    Copzilla 2150

    mikepd 2111

    Violet1966 1970

    ditch 1938

    Leon Keylin 1915

    bruzzes 1884

    midranger4 1767

    InsAgt 1730

    BigDeputyDog 1727

    Frodo Lives 1631

    RRedline 1538

    Coriolis 1538

    tke711 1269

    Advocat 1226

    Matrix 1211

    In this list, only 3 individuals live outside of the US, and one of those 3 is a US citizen.

    If we're going to experience more posts that deal with things other than the US, then those individuals who are affected by those issues need to post more often. Until that happens, the central theme of the majority of posts will be driven by the membership at large and where they live.
  12. cdw

    cdw Ahhhh...the good life.

    Hey, after the LAST long thread about the generalization about Americans being sooo sensitive and on the denfensive (which I also found offensive and rude, by the way), I started posting about issues in Australia. The first one I posted was left sitting there until someone else in the US picked up on it and we started discussing the difference in the law between here and there.
    I then posted another and that got little response and finally someone from Australia replied. Then things seemed to become a rude sort of push and pull thing between the Sydneys and the Melbournes... almost along the lines of the Hatfields and the McCoys, so I gave up.
    I'll say it again....I am not an American on the defensive, I'm a person in a forum that appears to have a couple of members on the offensive.... and I just step aside. Which I will do now.
    Pink....you must be taking lessons. :)

    Have a good one!
  13. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    Even this thread which has brought out some rancor has been educational. Having lived my whole life in the US barring brief but violent forays into SE Asia, I have no way of knowing that the patriotism shown in the US is different from that in Australia, England, Finland or any other country. Commentary on that patriotism can certainly be worded so as to make it a put down or to make it as commentary and I have seen it both ways.

    I will note that on several occasions I have begun threads asking about a certain subject and how it is treated in deferent countries and received little or no response.

    Maybe everybody should take more part in the POD/POM process and see how it works with more participation in nominating and in electing. Until then it is a small group sharing compliments but not because it was set up that way, but because others choose to complain rather than participate. Kind of like saying "I don't approve of a speed limit of 55 so I will do 50 and then keep complaining that 55 is too high."
  14. Advocat

    Advocat Viral Memes a Speciality Staff Member

    I think we're dealing with historic memory here. Without having the time to actually look things up, I think you'll find that late last year through early this year -- the wind-up to the invasion of Iraq, and during the invasion itself -- a lot of PoD/PoM nominations were for politially/nationally emotive pro-US pieces. Which is only to be expected.

    What I generally called "rah-rah writing" (no matter what nationality the writer). I remember posting in a thread to this effect... certainly I PMed certain people (you'll know who you are :) ) about this topic... which is why I remember it.

    But that's long in the past... ending when things in Iraq turned out to be not exactly as advertised. So, as I said, it's "historic memory".

    Move along, move along... nothing to see here. ;)
  15. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    Making the assertion that it was in the distant past, Advocat, doesn't back up the statement by Pink asking if we can ever get past that. It would seem that we already have, eh?

    The post was a provocation toward the forum, toward Americans, INTENTIONALLY SO I believe, it was baseless, and that's why it met with a poor reception. The allegation was defended after it was already shown it was baseless, and so inherited its offensive nature. I agree, ditch was being diplomatic, but the French are being diplomatic when they say Al Qaeda are not terrorists, too. Doesn't make it right, and it doesn't make their statements unoffensive.

    I believe the entire purpose of this thread was REALLY due to a recently departed friend, and an attempt to stir the pot with regards to the forum management. There are other threads that have taken the same tone. Like the one where "I like meeting members, Mel is a good person... oops, she's not a member any more". Can you say "baiting"? THAT'S what this is all about. Another bait job. It needs to stop.

    There, I said it. Now, I'm wondering, can we get past this? At all?
  16. Fiona

    Fiona Veteran Member

    Hey! I voted in April....where's my name? :p (nevermind, justmessin :p )
  17. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    I dont believe anyone is disagreeing with that Biker.
  18. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    The mistake I have made here I believe, is to speak on behalf of another member, Pink, who didn't ask me to do so, and who started this thread. You may be right that it was intended to be provocative and then I've taken up the running and tried to say otherwise. The lesson is, dont do other people's talking for them. I've been around long enough to know that.

    I'd like to clarify a few things to all who have read this thread but especially to you and Ethics. As I said earlier, the term Partiotism may not be the most appropriate for the point I was making. Advocat was probably more to the point and light hearted in suggesting "Rah Rah writing". And I agree, we all do it to a greater or lesser extent, Aussies included.

    Another point is that I know there are several nominations made each month for PoM. Also there are PoD nominations although I have never seen a winner in this category. All I see is that "There is no Pod winner today" or words to that effect on the front page of the forum. The posts that I was calling as patriotic or Rah Rah, are NOT NECESSARILY in either of those two camps and I should have made that clear. More specifically I was referring to those posts that engender nationalistic spirit and recieve such comments as "Thats Pom or PoD material". Or "Great post. Certainly PoD stuff". Whether they all make it to a list of nominees I dont know as I dont follow the voting system. Perhaps if I made my arguments clearer from the outset there would ahve been less confusion as to their meaning.

    As far as having a discussion on patriotism generally and how it is demonstrated by the rest of the world and how they perceive US style patriotism, I still think its a worthwhile exercise. To debate the phenomenon doesn't mean any offence need be given or taken.
  19. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    Not the entire purpose by any means. I honestly didn't know Mel had left the forum. In fact I was intending to send her a PM to ask her where the hell she was. I wont be doing that if she has left the scene.
  20. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    Cyd, the Sydney / Melbourne nonsense is just that. Light hearted nonsense. Ask John B, who is from M. Its a traditional thing that has been going on for decades.

    I think I missed the posts you referred to that were on OZ. If I see any in that catregory I make a point or responding.

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