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Political Sides & Elections

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Steve, Jan 2, 2003.

  1. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    That will be, in my opinion, the eventual undoing of any organized leftist activity in this country: self-contradiction, if not outright hypocrisy.

    We see a move in this direction, not necessarily in the way the Republicans have managed to wrest control of the government from the Democrats, but more in the way the Republican Party has been able to co-opt almost all of the traditionally liberal, leftist planks of the Democratic Party. Thirty years ago and more, the Democrats could claim "We're <u>for</u> this and the Republicans oppose it!" and now the Republicans are able to respond "So what? We're <u>also</u> for it!"

    I don't see this a shift of the right toward a more moderate, centric position, but rather the excercise of simple consistency. Americans like a sure thing, a safe bet, reliability in our cars, appliances, and politicians. When any of them start going flaky on us, we drop them in favor of ones that work. The left is finally too flaky for most Americans to support, anymore.

    ethics: From what I can see, it's a first, but this thread was way too civil for UiF and was split from this thread.
  2. -Ken

    -Ken Guest

    The left is dead?
    You really think so?

    Please, after almost twenty-five years of right wing bullshit the tides are turning. Want a sure indication? Look to the younger generation. Look at the 16-21 year-olds as they are the future.

    Things took a dramatic turn to the right in response to the excesses of the sixties. I'm not sure it wasn't warranted. However, the right can't stand up and claim any issues which are entirely their own short of gun ownership and ranting about the F'ing liberals this and the F'ing liberals that.

    Here's where the hook comes in.
    The Republicans are in control of both houses of Congress and the Presidency. How will things look in 20 months when the economy is still "listless" the terrorism "problem" is worse and the protests are getting bigger.

    The left is not only not dead but more capable than ever of wielding power. Show me a conservative rally where more than fifty thousand people showed up? For every one you name, I will be glad to remind you of a rally where 500,000 thousand came.

    The fact of the matter is, neither side can bring forth a leader which excites the moderates enough to get off their asses and do something as inconvenient as vote.

    Watch the group think guys.
    The end of the conservative wave is just about to break.
    If this "Gulf War II" turns nasty, it will be the final stake in the heart of a conservative movement for this time around. It isn't that one is right and one is wrong, it is that each side has a part to play in the overall management of this country.

    Because the Democrats are in the same shape the Republicans were in 1969 doesn't mean anything other than they will learn and take the initiative to listen and change. I would like to point out the conservatives did this quite well in the 1970s. Let's see if they can continue to keep the edge.
  3. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Let's hope so.
  4. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    Ah, Ken, I didn't say the left was dead. I'm interested in your ability to predict the state of the Union, 20 months from now. Can you tell me what Saturday's PA Lotto winning numbers will be, please? See, my wife just bought a new car......

    You glossed completely over my main point. The left is inconsistent. The left is unable to take control of any issue because it is so divided, internally. People like the late Paul Wellstone, who had great integrity, I grant you, are so far removed from the concerns of mainstream America that it's pitiful. Yet, he's lauded as a scion of the party.

    Look at the fractured field of announced and unannounced Democratic candidates for President. A unified, cohesive Democratic party would have one, maybe two strong contenders. They do not.

    I'm not talking liberals, here, either, I'm talking leftists, Democrats. Liberals want things that, mostly, we all want: universal, good education; children with full bellies and strong families; access to good health care; less crime; plenty of jobs; and so on. Well guess what? Conservatives want these things, too! No, it's not an issue of liberal versus conservative. The desires of both groups have so much in common as to be almost indistinguishable.

    It's an issue of Democrats versus Republicans, of leftists versus rightists. The fracas is not in <u>what</u> people want in this country, but rather in <u>how</u> to go about getting it done. In this respect, the left has failed. The left is a house divided.
  5. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    Ken, you're confusing a rally with resolve.

    It's not the conservative way to rally. We just discuss, be informed, and when elections like 2002 come along and all good Democrats are predicting repercussions from the Florida debacle, we just let people know what we think with our votes. Much to pundit chagrin.

    Being activist is diametrically opposed to conservative beliefs. Hence, no rallies. But we're here.


    Oh, and twenty months is not enough time to effect real economic swing, and get things rolling again. But I'm absolutely certain that some people will attempt to say that it was.
  6. cdw

    cdw Ahhhh...the good life.

    Sure you do... at almost every election I have been excited enough to get off my ass to vote... unfortunately, it's usually to vote AGAINST someone rather than for... :)
  7. -Ken

    -Ken Guest


    Sometimes the lesson war teaches is we don't want to be involved in war. These kids don't know what it was like to listen to the news every night and here the day's "body count" while you try to choke down dinner. I remember being struck real hard during dinner one night while I listened to the body count and realized one of those people was my best friend's older brother.

    I remember hearing how we had lost 57 men that day but the good news was "they" had lost 413. Everyday we killed ten times more than they did but there was still plenty of the enemy left to kill.

    The revolution against the establishment was caused by teenagers finding out being killed isn't as much fun as they thought it was.

    One more large terrorist attack and the US will be screaming for war. If the war turns against us and people start dying in large numbers and we will see an outrage which will make the sixties seem like a quiet time.

    The scary thing is, in the sixties, it was all about peace, love and understanding. Today, the kids know, understand and worship violence. It won't be pretty.
  8. Domh

    Domh Full Member

    No, it wont be pretty... and it will be directed at the Federal government of America.

    Difference being, this time - the kids wont be stoned and wearing sandals, they will be sober as shit, wearing combat boots and packing sidearms.

    It WILL happen in this country in my lifetime. I am SURE of it.

  9. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Good Lord.:rolleyes:

    This is so sad...someone please pass me a hanky.:cry:

    Ken, do us all a favor and run for office, would you? Your plank and at least some vague liberal constituency awaits.

  10. Domh

    Domh Full Member


    *passes steve a hanky*

    Oh I dont think its 'war turning against us' thats going to spark revolt in America at all.

    If somebody can organize the inner city and the poor of this country without getting assasinated first, the national guard better hope the military aint busy overseas because that could get ugly.

    Can you imagine the damage that the projects of JUST los angeles could dole out if they got their heads out of their collective asses?

  11. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    That's why the government secretly subsidizes the distribution of drugs in the projects and inner cities, to keep the poor and minorities busy shooting up and shooting each other......oh, sorry, isn't this the CT forum? ;)
  12. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    I think if people are ever going to start dying in large numbers, it WILL be from a terrorist attack, as opposed to combat operations.

    A bio attack on our cities scares me more than any other scenario.
  13. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    You know, much is made of anthrax, smallpox, etc. Seems to me that salmonella, e. coli, botulinum, and others are far easier to cultivate and disseminate without fear of detection.
  14. -Ken

    -Ken Guest


    My point is the "left" usually backs the Democrats. I would have to agree with your evaluation but I would like to remind you that twenty months before the election, the should be a group to choose from. We then have a primary. It will be interesting to see who pairs up with who. We all know most of the people running for president today will end up praying to chosen as the vice presidential candidate. <small>(Oooo, pick me, pick me!)</small>

    If you look a little closer you will see there is an accurate prediction predicated on contingency. If the Republican Congress and the President cannot get the economy jump started and should the administration continue to lose the support of moderates like Shiny, President Bush will suffer the exact same fate as Geroge Bush (the senior). Even if the Democrats put up any of the less than excellent candidates. People are once again on the edge. Look around at some of our members here. These aren't lazy welfare slimeballs (as some people might label) we are hard working, dedicated people one crisis away from hitting bottom. Believe me, when people believe they might lose their homes, have no food for the kids and end up on the street, they do get up and vote.

    As to Saturday's PA Lotto winning numbers, I have used up all my predicting superpowers this week, maybe next week.


    I don't think either of us can predict what will spark the next event. Rodney King caused a riot, which was tough to see. My guess is the next challenge will be caused by something nobody could have predicted. I also believe we will see great upheaval in our lifetime (along with Haywire) but whether it will be coupled with massive deaths or not really depends on how we plan the next few years.

    We face threats from outside and within. These feelings need to be dealt with before they come to a head.


    Always a pleasure.
    Of course, you could always run and show me how it's done. The scary thing is, I might even vote for you but that would depend if you were running against Haywire or not!
  15. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    It was real funny how when the draft was ended in 1973, two years <i>before</i> we got out of Vietnam, most all of the anti-war protesting ended.

    It's also funny how <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/03/nyregion/03NYC.html?ex=1042261200&en=728206a98f7beff1&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE">Congressman Rangel</a> now feels the need for the draft. I guess he understands to generate anti-war protests, you really have to have anti-draft protests.
  16. btdude

    btdude Veteran Member

    Cop, I hope I have not taken this out of context. But I have a question to follow your logic. Not to question it, as much as to just understand it. What do we (did we) call a gathering of lynch - pins? What do we call people carrying huge signs in front of the Supreme Court that say Abolish Roe v. Wade? And then how do we explain those who call themselves conservatives, who (in the name of God, BTW) preach what is moral or immoral, right or wrong in our society? Are these folks not considered activists? Just curious . . .
  17. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    They are often called the congregation.

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