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Planned Parenthood's Choice

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by drslash, Nov 25, 2002.

  1. drslash

    drslash It's all about the beer

    Choice words for abortion supporters' holiday cards

    While I am not really offended at what Planned Parenthood is doing, I am struck a bit by it though. I, like the opinion writer, am wondering what they are trying to accomplish by this?

    My wife gets junk mail from Planned Parenthood once in a while and I always drop the pre-paid return envelope in the mail just so they have to pay the postage. Maybe next time I'll tape the business reply envelope to a box of rocks and extract a little more cash from their enterprise.

    (I do not want this thread to be a pro or anti abortion debate)
  2. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    No offense, man, but the opinion lady sort of like missed the intent.

    ``Planned Parenthood has come out with Christmas cards,'' she sputtered. ``They say `Choice on Earth' instead of `Peace on Earth.' ''

    Is exactly that, it's not promoting abortion, although I can see why pro-life would be scared by this.
  3. Sunriser13

    Sunriser13 Knee Deep in Paradise

    I can't imagine the motive here, either.

    To me it's a tasteless display of arrogance, certainly not befitting the holiday. Marketing, (or fundraising, if you wish), is going to fall flat on their face on this one. I sure wouldn't want to be the one responsible for defending this travesty.
  4. jamming

    jamming Banned

    Sorry Ethics, I feel this is pretty tasteless. The whole Christmas Story is about an unplanned birth, with a mother who is pregnant by someone other than her husband. It would be like Hanukah Cards from the Hamas.

    It is like those case studies that were done on some famous prodigys, this is the circumstances of their birth would you advise the mother to carry the child to term or to consider abortion. If you helped the woman make the decision by the case history alone you would probably advise the Mothers' of Beethoven and Einstein to consider an abortion.

    These cards offend the people who are against them, doesn't particular excite their supporters, and doesn't do anything about the fence-sitters like me.
  5. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    You got all of that from "Choice on Earth"?

    To me, it's the opposite of whatever the shanks at the pro-life offer and please do not tell me it's more tasteful than "Choice of Earth" for Christmas.
  6. Coriolis

    Coriolis Bob's your uncle

    <i>I almost never even breathe the word ``abortion.'' Let alone write it. Till today.

    But using the message of Christmas to promote this ghastly procedure crosses even the most blurred line of common decency.

    For those a little hazy on where ``Peace on Earth'' comes from in the context of Christmas, it's the Bible. The Gospel According to Luke tells the moving story of shepherds near Bethlehem on that first Christmas, ``keeping watch over their flocks by night.'' Suddenly angels appear saying, ``Glory to God in the highest. Peace on earth to those on whom his favor rests.'' </i>

    Considering her <i>"gastly procedure"</i> comment, and her statement <i>"I almost never even breathe the word abortion"</i> my guess is she's dead against abortion in any form anyway. So of course she's offended.

    I have to agree with Ethics -- this is not promoting abortion, it's promoting choice. Big difference there.

    Though I must say, sending out cards at Christmas was probably not the best plan they've ever come up with. As Jim notes, it's likely to push the fence sitters, particularly to whom Christmas is sacred, to the pro-life side. I'm neither, so it wouldn't bother me a bit, but I'm not the one they need to win over.
  7. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    Well, it's certainly far more tasteful than 'Fetus in a Jar' stocking stuffers.
  8. jamming

    jamming Banned

    I didn't say the other sides card would be any better, but the unnamed choice to abort, under the guise of a holiday celebrating a birth is not very high class.
  9. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    No, agreed there. But then again, Planned Parenthood never asked me my opinion. :)
  10. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    Though I think the lady who wrote this article is the total and complete opposite of me in every way, shape, and form, I do agree on 1 thing - the holidays aren't the time to promote your views on the abortion issue.

    Every year, I make a conscious effort to buy Holiday cards that do not offend anyone on my mailing list who may be of another religion or nonreligion. So I'm always choosing cards with themese like Peace on Earth, etc. Religion is a hot topic, and abortion is probably even more so - whether you're pro-choice or not, it's a hot topic. I don't feel that the Holidays are an appropriate time to let everyone on your mailing list know that you're pro-choice. It's just asking for a world of trouble and you might end up seriously offending someone you mailed a card to.
  11. wapu

    wapu Veteran Member

    I agree that the writer is biased to begin with, so I am not surprised by her reaction. The people who are offended by planned parenthood using this, oh so sacred, holiday to promote their own interests better start looking at the malls first.

    Maybe a few hundred or even a few thousand people will take part in the offensive "Choice" cards. How many people will be at the mall suckling at the tits of the big ad companies, running themselves into debt all in the name of Christ? How many kids will be disappointed when they don't get the cool video game their friends all got, but instead got a coat and new shoes. Christ would surely be proud of that scene.

    How about all of the Catholics who make one of their two yearly appearances at Christmas Mass, spending the whole time dreading that it is only about 4 months to Easter and when they will have to come back? I am sure Christ would have Icicle lights and plastic snowmen in his yard too. I am sure killing a tree and sticking the end up an Angles ass is how he likes to be honored.

    I really believe that Jesus Christ, The son of the Almighty God, would have us spend hundreds of dollars on a meal in his name and gorge ourselves to the point of puking while other people who live in our own town, maybe even our own neighborhood, will put their kids to bed the rest of the year not really hungry, but not really full either.

    I think X-mas as we know it in our country today is exactly how Christ would want all of you good Christians out there to honor him. I used to laugh when people called it X-mas. I thought, ha, they're Xing out the name of Christ. Now I am glad when I see it. Whether I believe in Christ or not is irrelevant to the fact that the name of Christ has done many good things for people when they believe. I hate to see that name used to describe the deplorable behavior we call Christmas.
  12. RRedline

    RRedline Veteran MMember

    I have to disagree with you, ethics. I think this is in very poor taste, and it certainly is promoting the use of abortion as a form of birth control(for the Holidays, no less). How can anyone argue that it isn't? Why would anyone want to send somebody these cards at this time of year?

    The word 'choice' is so overused for this debate, anyway. Choice, shmoice. If I am in favor of allowing people to shoot other people in the head anytime they want, does that mean I am pro-choice? After all, I am in favor of giving people the 'choice' to shoot other people. Choice, choice, choice, choice, choice, choice, choice, choice, choice, choice, choice, choice, choice, choice, choice, choice, choice, choice, choice, choice, choice...blah! Get a better word already. Abortion rights supportres have completely hijacked a word that could be applied to a bazillion other political stances.

    Would anyone send a pro-choice branded birthday card to someone? Would anyone send poor people a welfare-reform branded card? Why did Planned Parenthood feel the need to put their message on a Christmas card?
  13. wapu

    wapu Veteran Member

    It is very easy to argue that it isn't. Planned Parenthood does not advocate abortion as birth control. If you do not believe that then you would not believe the truth in the cards.

    As for the word choice, that is the center point of the argument for them. This could explain one of the reasons the 2 sides can't seem to see the other's side, they are not talking about the same thing.

    But, this is an old argument. And the bullet points on both sides are tiresome.

  14. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    One hell of a post, Wapu. :thumbsup:
  15. Domh

    Domh Full Member


    Its the job of the anti-choice camp (no way am i calling them pro-life and playing their game) to 'theologize' the issue, and that they do so has always been a trump card for those who defend Roe v. Wade. Bible thumping makes just about anybody look like a loony.

    Planned Parenthood fucked up. They forgot that when you have the high ground, the best strategy is to just stay there and be quiet.

  16. El Coyote

    El Coyote Registered User

    Basically your rape pregnancy, for which the Pro-Lifers support allowing an an abortion.
    Yeah, that comes up about every nine months or so in news://talk.abortion -- trying to trap Pro-Choice people into recomending an abortion. Which the never manage.

    If anyone is interested in discussing the abortion issue just point your favorite newsgroup reader to talk.abortion and join in. It is unmoderated and does tend to get a bit brusk, is 90%+ garbage, but does get interesting at times.
    but would not normally be sent out to them so is beside the point. The hitting up for donations offends me.
  17. El Coyote

    El Coyote Registered User

    FWIW, I S T R O N G L Y recommend anyone interested in this issue to take it to news://talk.abortion -- under a different I.D.. I do *NOT* want to know my *friends* opinions on this subject.
  18. RRedline

    RRedline Veteran MMember

    The term pro-life makes more sense than pro-choice, to me anyway. As I already stated in a rant, choice is a very vague term and can be applied to way too many things. What possible things could pro-life mean? I guess it could mean that you don't support ending anybody's life...abortion(if you choose to believe that even though it is still inside a woman, it is still a human being), capital punishment, assisted suicide, etc. Maybe pro-life doesn't accurately describe the way I feel about those issues because I am against the use of abortion as a form of birth control(which makes up more than 99.9% of all abortions), but I am all for capital punishment and assisted suicide. As for assisted suicide, I guess you could call me pro-choice. ;)

    I think you're right, Domhain, that people play games with their words. I don't think it's fair to call pro-choice people pro-abortion, and it's not fair to call pro-life people anti-choice. I just think that the pro-lifers have a better, more accurate word than the pro-choicers do.

    So what am I if I oppose allowing a woman to have the </i>choice</i> to terminate her pregnancy if it is strictly for birth control? I have no problem with abortions done ASAP in the pregnancy if it was caused by rape or incest or if complications arise. When I think about the huge pile of human fetuses that are sucked out of women every day in this country, it makes me want to vomit. It makes me ashamed of my own species.

    No matter how anyone feels on the abortion debate, I think these cards are inappropriate. I would laugh if I received one, and I hope pro-choicers will do the same. It's a CHRISTMAS card! It's not a "shove my political message down your throat" card. WTF?
  19. jamming

    jamming Banned

    An inaccurate characterization and not very unoffensive in this forum.

    As to those stories they were from the 1970's and where used in training social workers. They are far older than the internet news forum and have been around long enough that most involved in the debate will recognize their source. I had them in my social work counselling class in 1985 and my teacher there had them introduced to him in the 1970's.

    As to the defining the issue anti-choice/pro-choice or anti-life/pro-life, I think it is great that both sides have defined themselves in what they are for, rather than what they are against. The other would be there by implication anyway.
  20. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Just a friendly reminder from your friendly local host. :)

    Abortion, religion, and many other topics tend to get emotional, personal, and very heated. The thread, thus far, has been kept under level-headed discourse. We would appreciate if it stayed the course and not have to move any personal attacks out of here.

    No reason for me to write this now, but just felt it necessary since this is a great thread with a very controversial issue.

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