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Our French allies...oops, former allies

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Robert Harris, Jan 21, 2003.

  1. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    As could have been predicted.

    Excerpts:

    France Vows to Block Resolution on Iraq War

    By Glenn Kessler and Colum Lynch
    Washington Post Staff Writers
    Tuesday, January 21, 2003; Page A01

    UNITED NATIONS, Jan. 20 -- France suggested today it would wage a major diplomatic fight, including possible use of its veto power, to prevent the U.N. Security Council from passing a resolution authorizing military action against Iraq.

    France's opposition to a war, emphatically delivered here by Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin, is a major blow for the Bush administration, which has begun pouring tens of thousands of troops into the Persian Gulf in preparation for a military conflict this spring. The administration had hoped to mark the final phase in its confrontation with Iraq when U.N. weapons inspectors deliver a progress report Monday.

    De Villepin, in a lengthy and at times theatrical news conference, was asked whether France would use its veto power to thwart Washington's campaign for quick action. He said France "will shoulder its responsibilities, faithful to the principles it has."

    France would never "associate ourselves with military intervention that is not supported by the international community," de Villepin added. "We think that military intervention would be the worst possible solution."

    More at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19221-2003Jan20.html
     
  2. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    I mean, what would happen to France's oil deals with Saddam is Saddam is replaced?
     
  3. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    Sometimes I almost wish we'd just pull all of our troops out and bring them home. I almost wish that we'd let ol' Saddam build his Hitler-like regime and do what he pleases. Sometimes I wish we'd just sit back and say, "<i>I told you so!</i>"

    Sometimes.

    Almost.

    And France can take the Statue of Liberty and shove her right up it's ass.
     
  4. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    I can agree with that, Haywire. Maybe we'd be better off if we concentrated our energy on cultivating Venezuala as a strong, regional ally.
     
  5. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    Just maybe France's objections aren't as much about the oil as the possibility of the world discovering that France has supplied Saddam with some really bad toys. Toys that Saddam is loathe to destroy and France more than anything else really doesn't want to get caught with their knickers down on this one.
     
  6. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Well, be that as it may...there are certainly several European corporations which are suspected of supplying Iraq with the chemical precursors for WMD. I'm sure there's always some maneuvering room in determining culpability--after all, just because you can make bombs out of fertilizer doesn't necessarily preclude a nation from selling it--but there is something to be said about it. (And for the record, two US companies are under investigation for this same thing, according to NBC.)

    I'm surprised by France's sudden vehemence. Again, it appears there are is a constant: if the US wants/needs/desires something in the global arena, France will try and stop it. To be sure, France's motivations are hardly selfless and moralistic; there's an angle they want to play, and I suspect their fat, ripe oil deals are the angles they want to keep in the ring.

    So, why Europeans cry "No war for oil!" they would perhaps be more inclined to fess up and tell the truth: "No oil if war!"

    SM
     
  7. Sir Joseph

    Sir Joseph Registered User

    Is this even worth a thread here? Do we really give a shit what France says? No offense to Fredus, but the French are jackasses. Their sole purpose in life is to thumb their noses at the US. They are certainly not worthy of a full-time seat on the Security Council.
     
  8. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    No, Lybia is though...


    (sorry, couldn't help myself there)
     
  9. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    I'm just curious why we need UN approval?

    Again, the UN overstates its usefulness. And we hold too much stock in it.

    Our constitution outlines very clearly when we may engage in war, and the steps to get there. And it says nothing about gaining the French approval through the UN.

    I believe the best tactic would be one of "Well, then we'll do it anyway. Only we'll do it OUR way since you don't want to have anything to do with it."
     
  10. mikepd

    mikepd Veteran Member

    Let me see. The President of the United States of America upon being sworn into office states the following:

    "I, name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States."

    Just wanted to get the wording right. Yes, nowhere do I see having to go to France, the UN or anywhere else to ask pretty please can I defend my country against attack by a perceived threat, Nope. It's a new age dawning post 9/11 and if the world doesn't like it, they can go pound sand. I am sick and tired of having to apologize for everything this country does. Ramsey Clark and the rest of the apologists can talk all they want. They can march all they want. The really sad part about their little world is that they fail to understand that the brave men and women whose lives they denigrate are the ones who give them the freedom that allow them to make those speeches and walks. Send them to downtown Baghdad as Kurds and let them try the same thing and see how far they get.

    The world has this love/hate relationship about the US. When they want something only the world's superpower can deliver, it's help us please and we respond. Do something in our interest (like they are squeaky clean and have only pure thoughts) and we are the devil incarnate. Enough. No more. Not this time.

    So let the internal and external dissenters rant all they want. While brave men and women go in harm's way to defend the freedom that allows them to have their say. What proof is good enough for them? A smallpox epidemic? An LNG carrier ship being blown up in a harbor with the force of a small tactical nuke? N. Korea shipping weapons grade material to god knows whom? How many preventable deaths? Does history teach them anything? Does the word appeasement have any meaning to them? Do they understand the logical progression of WWI into WWII? How easily Hitler could have been stopped when he made his initial moves if the Europeans had stood up to him pre-Munich? Do they even care?

    Am I wasting my time trying to even reason with them?

    Bottom line- Time to kick serious ass because freedom is never free and the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
     
  11. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    We'll probably wind up going it alone. And Bush did it to himself, in a way, by telling the UN to honor its obligations, or wind up being sidelined.

    The apparent response to this was the UN essentially saying, "We resent the implication that this august body is an ineffective collective; therefore, we have elected to do everything in our power to prevent the United States from making war. Should it choose to do so, it will become an international brigand, who we will slap with our gloves and ask to a duel...well, when the next president takes over, that is."

    One potentially sticky wicket which could bite the US in the ass later: the PRC could point to the US's one-sided conflict with Iraq as a precedent and take on Taiwan. Believe me, they'll use this to their advantage if they can.

    And yes, look for the UN to take a great big step back from that fight, too.

    SM
     
  12. Basilio

    Basilio Banned

    Frankly, if it were only simply the French and German governments that disagree with such an action. You can add to the list Canada, Russia, Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Greece, and a bunch of countries from the EU, and China. I think that is a significant amount of opposition. It does not entail that if France, Canada, or Germany do not agree with the US position that they are somehow no longer allies, anymore than a protestor in Washington D.C. is no longer an American..... That kind of thinking is intolerant. People need not be lapdogs of this or that power....As far as the vulgar language used vis-a-vis the French, of not giving a shit of what the French and most of the EU think, they are a member of the Security Council and Russia and China also agree and are on the council.... Those peoples together represent 2 billion people all together.... Nothing to scoff at...
    But I do believe Bush like his father has his ego vested in this thing, so it is too late....
     
  13. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Basilio,

    The Chinese leadership is not in any way reflective of what the Chinese people think. I recommend you go there and discover this for yourself.

    SM
     
  14. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    Check this out to see something where most Americans, even left-leaning Democrats, probably approve of the president's views.

    http://www.uclick.com/client/nyt/ta/
     
  15. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Funny!!!

    SM
     
  16. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    Libya is not a member of the Security Council. And if it were -- it probably will be some day -- it would not be a permanent member. Permanent members are US, UK, Russia, China and France. he remaining 10 members are elected by the General Assembly for two-year terms.
     
  17. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    Here is word from a top DEefense Fep't. advisor:

    "Look, the French have an attitude toward the United States, toward their role in Europe, toward the role of the United States in Europe in which they clearly want to diminish the significance, the importance, the leadership of the United States, and every French action points in that direction,'' said Richard Perle, an adviser to the Pentagon.

    "No one should be surprised that the French are trying to exploit this very difficult situation for rather narrow and unworthy French purposes,'' Perle said on Fox News Sunday.''

    More at: http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/politics/politics-iraq-usa-europe.html
     
  18. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    The world of diplomacy is a hoot. The French have twenty different agendas with regards Iraq and none of them smell any better than Lev or Pupowski's allegations that we are only in it for the oil The Germans have made very difficult decisions with regards to priorities and appear to have bet on the terrorism cells giving up. They made a bad bet.

    So now instead of saying hey, we have our own interests that take precedence over the safety of the world they play the stage set by Saddam of ignoring ten years and screaming prove it. And we, bound by the same rules of diplomacy, cannot call them on it. So a petty tyrant dictator like Saddam plays the world like a violin. I am beginning to question whether or not we will take action. The hell of it is that I am completely convinced Saddam will prove the folly of not taking him out if we do back down. Or I should say, many innocent lives will pay the cost.
     
  19. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Canada only if you listen to that ass talking frog in Ottawa. And he's a fine one to talk.. He's done what he's bloody damned well pleased without listening to the people in his own country.

    EU doesn't count as they're as full of themselves as much as France is.
     
  20. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    The Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland have all pledged support, as have prospective new NATO members from Bulgaria to Lithuania. Reuters reports that Spain has also pledged to let America use its bases in the liberation of Iraq.
     

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