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On My Resignation of Membership

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by Techie2000, Jul 31, 2010.

  1. Techie2000

    Techie2000 The crowd would sing:

    Dear Friends,

    Today I write a message that I find a little difficult, but at the same time easy. As you may have noticed over the past few weeks I have taken a break from contributing to our community. Today I have decided to make that break final, and out of respect for our shared history, experiences, and even friendship I feel I do owe you a goodbye.

    I do not make this decision lightly nor hastily. I have observed over the past week or so after Joe's absence and my break that the conversation on the forum had in fact become more productive and cordial for those that remain. At the same time my break has allowed me a little less stress and distraction from some other rather important developments in my personal life. It appears we have reached the point in our journey where our paths diverge, and if we wish to move forward then we must move apart.

    I cannot leave though without sharing some comments on the tenor of debate here. I have noticed that in much of the posting and debate, the issue seems to be not the merits of the ideas presented but on the character of the person or group presenting them. People talk about the evils of "ObamaCare" or attack the left or right for their bias and failings. I am certainly not without fault in this area, and character is certainly an issue to be explored. However when it is tied in with every post about an issue or policy proposal it ceases to be a productive thing; it turns into a distraction. How can an honest conversation about healthcare reform happen when it is disparagingly labeled as "hell-thcare" or an honest conversation about immigration reform between two sides work when we make the issue that different media outlets are taking a side? I know more than a few times that many here take the position that a shared cynicism is the only honest position in this character debate. However experience has taught me that in fact the opposite is true. A shared optimism is the only way two sides will ever be able to work together for the betterment of our debate and our country. As Lincoln, a great Republican, once said, "the question is not whether any one of us can imagine better, but can we all do better?"

    I am loath to close. However, it is time to move on. For that reason I am invoking rule 12 and resigning my membership in this society. I give sincere thanks for the great discussions we have had, and the insights that you have shared with me over the past many years. I may drop in to peek once in a while as a guest, but the usefulness of my contributions has come to an end. Goodnight and good luck.

  2. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Good luck on your journey, Matt.
  3. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    So again I ask, what else is there to discuss? Your political element is doing whatever it wants, right? Do you -really- want a counter opinion or civil discussion, or do you want me in lockstep with your world view? If the latter, then no, you shall never have it.

    Goodbye, Matt.
  4. Swamp Fox

    Swamp Fox Veteran Member

    So what's left of the forum, then?
  5. Kluge

    Kluge Observing your world for over 50 years

    Sorry to lose another brain lending balance, but he was getting way too technical for me.
    Heck, I'm too lazy to even read these, let alone post them.
  6. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    LOL... Damn James...
  7. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    I'm just dumbfounded, although surprised only in that it was Matt who pulled the pin and dropped the grenade, as I was surprised when Joe did the same.

    That's really an inane rule, your rule #12. I've been inactive for quite some time (weeks? months?) but I felt that I preferred to preserve my ability to return to posting if I so desired. And in fact I've just broken my months long silence a few minutes ago, upon a related topic. I'm not going to invoke your silly inane rule myself.

    Nevertheless, GA management, cannot you see that something is broken? Are you just going to profess that everything is fine, that you've lost only some valueless members, and that your present active core (mostly management) will continue to carry your interest?

    I've noticed particularly in recent days that when I go to "new posts" there is no new material. No new material means no audience. No audience means no bandwidth. No bandwidth means that you are off the air.
  8. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    By the way Matt, in rereading my reply I intended to but forgot to wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors. I wish you my very best! :)
  9. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Every thing is peachy. I'm enjoying the forum for the first time in almost 7 years because I've stopped trying to pander to every little whiny prick who doesn't get it his way. Too every little holier than thou-thinking they know something more than everyone else and just talks without listening, baits, and then runs to the report button. To every asshole who sent me a "fuck you" email because they felt they were wronged by another member. Gosh, I wonder who that was.

    Don't like it? I'll refund your members fees that you contribute to the hours spent on not just software, hardware, but also pandering to the () see above. Oh wait, there are no membership fees?

    Don't let the door hit your ass on your way out.
  10. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    Greg, my issue with what Techie has stated is simply a matter of perspective. Let me ask you this...

    Is anything that any of us has said about politics, about the current administration's agenda, something that was more intense, more vitriolic, more militant than what was said by the left during Bush's tenure? I think the left's antics during Bush's tenure, their rhetoric, was much much much more colorful than anything you've seen here.

    Like the Joker posters... Did you know that one was created with Bush's face before Obama's? But I guess now it's racist.

    Leftist are really having a difficult time adjusting to the critique that they themselves heaped out, even more intensely than they're receiving now.

    Out of all the posts, all the debate about budgets, breaking the fiscal bank, rules requiring banks to lend to risky borrowers and then demonizing those same banks when they fail, what he pegged on was me calling Obama's health plan "hell-thcare". I tagged it so because we cannot afford it. At all. AND it's going to harm business, as we've discussed here. But it's the lingo that offended him. Goodness... You know how many times leftists have referred to the right as "Nazis"? And something like "hell-thcare" is a key problem in his exit?


    It was just one more dig on his way out, Greg.

    It's not all of us that have changed, sir.
  11. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    Leon: "Don't let the door hit your ass on your way out."

    That is just so telling. You are not addressing nor are you admitting any problem (although I admit that I state my opinion that there is a problem, which is not a fact but only my opinion). Your forum is losing interest, losing members, losing bandwidth, losing its attractiveness. And you're saying, "Fuck you all." Okay, I can accept that. I can even accept it without a comeback.

    Copz: "Greg, my issue with what Techie has stated is simply a matter of perspective. Let me ask you this..."

    You should understand that the political rhetoric from either side doesn't faze me. I'm good with all that, although I suspect perhaps Matt isn't (not that he can respond because I presume rule #12 caused his ability to reply to be terminated).

    I don't have any problem with either/any political point of view because I find it interesting to discover what other people think, and sometimes (although rarely) they have even convinced me to change my point of view and to adopt their side of the issue. It's true, that has happened. I'm guessing that Matt may not enjoy the discourse as much as I.

    Respectfully, you (management) are alienating your core. It is your job to discover why that is, if you care, not my job. Or maybe you disagree that there is any alienation issue. Okay, I have only one person's opinion: there is an issue. I have but one vote and I vote it thus. Yet even now I refuse to invoke your silly rule #12. Have your forum the way you like it and if I find it interesting or valuable to me to reply then I will. Or otherwise, not.

    In any case I'm a pundit of why forums work or don't work, and what it takes to make them work or what is lacking that causes them fail. It is for that reason that I am currently participating in this topic. I'll be sorry to see you fail (if you do). I enjoy an interesting debate. I'll be pleased if you succeed, and I'll be interested in participating in that debate. It's up to you (GA management). If you fail then I will be saddened. I have enjoyed your forum enough that to date I have submitted 12,000+ replies. That indicates an interest and commitment of some degree. I've paid my dues in the coin that you have desired, Leon. If you expected anything else then you should have asked for it.
  12. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    But yet it's the political rhetoric that he quotes, Greg. You say you're okay with it, but we need to change? You can be good with it all day long, but Matt was the one who killed his account.

    Couldn't you see that Matt and Joe had changed dramatically? I sure could. When the pressure was on them to defend their man in charge while things were not improving and promises were not being kept, hoo-boy. They are having a melt down.

    Do you honestly think either one of them actually wanted to know our opinions on political matters? If Matt did, he sure had a funny way of showing it. He never did engage any of us with any meaningful thoughts of his own. It was all regurgitated bullshit. One of Joe's final statements was that he was here to make progress on us all, bend us to his thought process, and it was slow but steady. He wasn't here for his own knowledge, to make friends, to learn, but to indoctrinate us all. Talk about arrogance.

    Rule 12 is not silly. It's there for two purposes - 1. Specifically to allow someone a nuclear option. If someone really wants to hang themselves, we're all about freedom, baby. They're doing it willingly. Matt and Joe apparently don't think it's a silly rule; they invoked it. 2. To keep all the fucking drama out. All the crying "I'm outa here you BASTARDS!" and then returning, only to whine some more, then leave again... This way, we only have to deal with the bitching once.

    Finally, a forum that doesn't work? You know how many times people have told Leon this forum is failing? It's been failing ever since I came to it 8 years ago. Sharon said it's failing. Paladin said it's failing. MANY people have said it's failing. It's a bunch of friends who have been failing together for a long long time. I look at it like Apple Corporation. Quietly going out of business for 30 years.
    3 people like this.
  13. Arc

    Arc Full Member

    Please. Paladin also said that vans were not any more prone to roll over than cars, it was the lousy drivers in vans that were the problem. Plus people NEEDED SUV's! Why where Paladin lived (Los Angeles County--Gardena I think which is in the LA Basin immediately adjacent to LA), the potholes were massive and the weather alone mandated an SUV or large Pickup like Paladin drove. (The year he posted that LA had five inches of rain during the year.)

    Ah, the memories.
  14. tke711

    tke711 Oink Oink Staff Member

    "It's all the managements fault".

    How, 2010 is that statement? It's never personal responsibility, it's always "the mans" fault for not catering and giving in to every interest group on planet earth.

    Personally, while I wish we had more members and more view points, there is not much we on a staff level can do about it. Forums as a whole are having troubles for one simple reason. Social Media. People are much more interested in throwing out their view point without being challenged.

    While we aren't perfect (well, the rest of the staff at least because I am ;)), this forum is still the most civil on the planet. Hell, you can't even read comments on articles from MSN sites without seeing stupid flame wars. That's something I'm proud to say is incredibly minimal on this site.

    To me, the problem is really with those on the far left spectrum. For years they complained and complained loudly about the evil Bush and all the bad things Republicans were doing. Then, they got their wish, full power. Their man in the White House and their party in both halls of Congress and it's not working out so well. Deficits are exploding, more so than even the previous administration, and the economy isn't coming around. Hell, even their idols in Europe have slammed their economic thinking and policies.

    They just can't handle being on the other side, the side they loved being on sooo much for 8 years. So, instead of understanding that and owning it, they try little childish games like "I know you are but what am I" and once again point blame at others for not being open enough or understanding enough or what ever enough of the day. It's their typical MO. They are very, very good at pointing out perceived problems but incredibly bad at actually solving them or admitting their own shortcomings.

    Edit: Ooops...just noticed that Leon posted much the same in another thread. Man...great minds do think alike. :lol:
    3 people like this.
  15. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Greg, all I will say is I appreciate your input. I just disagree with, Your forum is losing interest, losing members, losing bandwidth, losing its attractiveness. As Copz and Tke said, it's not. It's also ceased to be "my forum" a long time ago. It's your forum, and everyone's else.

    Social media is killing the venue, nothing more. People who leave here are having MUCH easier time to jostle with their friends and family on FB and on fluffy topics like what's the best matzo balls for Passover or what's the best toilet paper. There are still forums, but those sites are all about retaining their core. If the core goes away, ces la vie. Not much anyone can do about it and you know what? I'd be ok with that. I have people's emails, I have friended most of them on FB and Twitter, and we all move on.
  16. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    I just checked the logs, and our HTTP bandwidth usage hasn't changed much over the years. In fact, since implementing Facebook and Twitter feeds, our bandwidth usage has gone up as more individuals are reading the forums. While this isn't translating to active membership (see Leon's comment on social networks), our readership is actually higher than it was at the forum's inception. Once I have a viable bridge solution to include Wordpress as our portal page, I expect bandwidth usage to climb even higher. 

    I find it amusing that through the years, many have made the claim that the forum is dying and make references to statistics that they don't have access to. Makes one wonder what their ultimate agenda is. And to those who think they're god's gift to the Internet and think they can do things much better, you're more than welcome to start your own forum and give it a go. It's been done before and the results have always been the same. We're still here. 
  17. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    The problem I have with forum members and management is their rudeness, their ad hominem attacks, their lack of civility. As I said, I like the interaction of differing points of view, as long as they can have a civil conversation. Apparently I don't get as upset as some people when faced with others who don't agree with my point of view or disagree with my politics.

    Perhaps bandwidth wasn't the best choice of words I could have used. I was referring to the amount of new topics and new replies available for me to read. The metric I was intending to use has nothing to do with passive reading although that of course expends bandwidth. Perhaps I may be wrong but it appears to me that there are fewer new topics, fewer replies, and decreased interesting subject material for me to read. That is what I meant about slowing down.

    Unfriendliness in this forum has driven me to the point where I feel very little interest in starting any topics, nor in posting replies. I think that was silly of Joe and Matt to invoke rule #12. In effect they've crossed the bridge and burned it behind. From my point of view I don't have anything to gain by burning a bridge behind me. If I want to cross that bridge again then it's available for that. Meanwhile my silence says everything that I feel like saying.
  18. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Got nothing to add to this but a shrug and an "oh well."

  19. Piobaireachd

    Piobaireachd Full Member

    Same here. I didn't realize Joe bailed out, but then again I only stop by a little bit now and then.

    I can't say Techie and I ever got along anyway.

    If you want to leave, leave. Just don't make a big production out of it.
  20. Piobaireachd

    Piobaireachd Full Member

    Maybe it's just you.

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