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Obamacare is still a shit show -- or Part Deux

Discussion in 'Society and Culture' started by ethics, Oct 29, 2013.

  1. SixofNine

    SixofNine Jedi Sage Staff Member

    If you like your gun, you'll be able to keep your gun, period. Oh, wait, wrong thread.
  2. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    I am loving this, though. Almost everyone in this forum predicted this will happen and to see it come to fruition is somewhat bittersweet.
  3. SixofNine

    SixofNine Jedi Sage Staff Member


  4. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    I agree with you Copz, and I agree with the zero sum limited profit for insurance companies which I've mentioned in another topic. However I expect that insurance companies would have preferred business as usual rather than Obamacare.

    Pissed off Obamabots... I like that!!! :)

    I think Obama and his 'bots have made a serious mistake. It appears to me that Obamacare is not workable in the real world, and that increasing numbers of his supporters are going to be negatively impacted and may decide to vote against the Democrats over the next few years.

    The big question: Can it be disarmed? Dismantled? Reversed? Is it fixable? (Not without major, major changes, and I have no conception of what those changes would be.) Obamacare is going to disrupt the medical system for years to come, and the unintended or negative consequences are going to disrupt the economy, warp employment and inconvenience many/most Americans for years. Some will never recover irrespective if the system proceeds or if it is reversed and terminated.
  5. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    I completely agree. I found particularly poignant these parts of the WSG article:

    I'm a bit confused by your statement regarding intentional/brilliant or accidental/surprise. At first I thought you meant enacting Obamacare, but it seems you are referring to the events starting with Ted Cruz's 21 hour epic speech and the painful shutdown that cast so much aspersion on the Republican party and Tea faction.

    I see it as Cruz and his supporters holding to their own ideology as tightly as Obama and the Democrats holding theirs. The RINOs have been having shit attacks, but in retrospect I think Cruz and his speech and the government shut down and the other events made it abundantly appear that the Republicans were dragged into Obamacare kicking and screaming, and it indelibly marked Republicans as the ones who tried to prevent the Obamacare debacle.

    If events proceed as most of us believe, if the negative reverberations of implementing Obamacare continue and intensify, I see no way the Republicans can avoid gaining control of Congress and the Presidency in 2016. We will get an advance look at the 2016 prospects if in 2014 the Republican seats increase in Congress particularly if they take the Senate. Heh, if that happens it's going to turn Obama from a lame duck to a dead duck!

    I think Cruz's speech and the non-RINOs who stuck to their ideology was accidentally brilliant! :) I don't see how conservatives can avoid doing well in the next two elections unless they snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.

    The only thing that can prevent this is if Obamacare can be fixed by 2016. My ideology and belief in Obamacare being unworkable tells me it's impossible to fix it without gutting it, preferably neutering it. Unfortunately it has already done irrevocable harm and will continue to so so.
  6. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    Krauthammer is brilliant. I've seen him interviewed on Fox several times in the last few weeks.

    That's a good summary of all the negative fallout from the implementation of Obamacare.

    Yes, another good article! The part that gets me is the lies coming out of the Obama administration, like the one the article starts with where Obama and his ilk are blaming insurance companies for the cancellations and price hikes, when in fact they wrote the legislation that it is virtually impossible that the insurance companies could act any other way. They are businesses and as such they rely on profits. Obamacare forced them into a corner where they had only two choices: carry the policies at a loss or cancel or increase rates. Or go broke I guess.

    Yeah I know what you mean. I've been hammering away at it ever since the shut-down moved off the front pages and allowed Obamacare to take the limelight. Everybody who has posted in this topic has taken one or more shots at what a failure Obamacare is, and how the facts are becoming increasingly obvious to everybody. Even the liberal press is starting to pick up the story and the criticism.

    Conservatives had nothing to do with this disaster. Obamacare was passed by congress without a single Republican vote (what I heard). Cruz's speech and the Republican-blamed shut down has bolded and underscored this fact. This disaster was brought on America by progressive liberals and Obama, and if the world is fair at all they are going to pay the price.

    Unfortunately many innocent people are also going to pay the price. I hear the cancellations have either approached or exceeded a million people. I have a feeling things are going to get worse.
  7. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

  8. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    I think pretty much everybody in America (except perhaps Obama and a few of his Kool-Aide drinkers) have accepted that the statement, "If you like your health plan you can keep your health plan" was overly optimistic, perhaps delusional, or by some, a lie.

    We all know now that whether or not you liked your health plan you may be thrust into Obamacare whether you like it or not. If it costs you more and has a higher deductible, at least you can feel good that you are buying health insurance for people who are too lazy or too stupid or too drugged out to work.

    I like particularly that substance abuse requirement. Most of us won't need substance abuse coverage because we know we aren't going to start taking illegal drugs or guzzling alcohol. If you know you aren't going to do that then why do you need to pay for it. I guess it's because you're paying to contribute to the treatment of other people who are substance abusers (drunks and druggies).

    By the way, people aren't druggies or drug addicts or stoners any more. They suffer from Substance Abuse Disorder (there's a DSM IV for that) and it's a mental disability, not a moral weakness. I'm just reporting the facts, not my personal opinion.
  9. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    No, you're not catching the gist of what I'm saying.

    Say you figured Obama is refusing to budge. He's being an obstinate bully with the football. He's arrogant, and condescending. What do you do? You make Obama remove his OWN options. You have just demanded he shut down Obamacare, knowing full well that will never happen. When it doesn't happen, you demand they delay it. Of course, Obama is pissed at his opposition and refuses to even consider it. When that doesn't happen, you demand they ease the individual mandate for a year, like he has done his cronies in unions. Obama again refuses to even consider it, because he hates your ass, and that is that. When that doesn't happen, you demand and demand, and get refused and refused.

    But what has really happened? Obama has backed himself into a "no, no, no, no, no" corner. Every time he said no, he was removing an option from himself. He can no longer arbitrarily give this break or that delay or whatever, like he HAD been doing. Because he has already refused to do it for the OTHER guy.

    So why is this important?

    So that Obama the Messiah doesn't get to appear to be all comforting and kind. You take his mojo, and make him OWN the piece of shit legislation he demanded in the first place, AS it was written. After all, the law is the law, right? And for once in Obama's entire presidency, he doesn't get to blame the other guy.

    Right now, the political climate is that people aren't even mad at Cruz any more. The media is all over Obama's ass for broken promises - even leftist media. And Obama is powerless to even change it, because he fought so hard to keep it.
    rockotman likes this.
  10. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    BTW, this is a real picture. When you see it...

    rockotman likes this.
  11. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    I think I more or less get it. I take it as a question of whether the Republicans intended to back Obama into the corner, make him look obstinate, and make it totally clear to America that this POS legislation was totally owned by Obama.

    Was it intentional or accidental. I'd like to say "intentional" but I think it was mostly due to Cruz's ideology that Obamaare was just wrong. You recall that the RINOs deserted Cruz almost immediately, and that Obama's deflection of the blame for the shut down was largely successful, in large part because he owns the bully pulpit.

    I think Cruz's gambit was accidentally brilliant. During the entire shut down and for a short period afterwards the Republicans were showing very badly in the opinion polls and RINOs and Republican moderates were ample in their condemnation of Cruz, blaming him for the Republican negative polls and setting up to blame him if the 2014 elections go badly for the Republicans.

    I hope the RINOs and moderates are rethinking that position, revising their opinion of Cruz. It's looking to me like America's anger has been refocused on Obama and the Democrats, particularly now that it's coming out that no, you can't keep your old plan and no, you can't keep your doctor, and oops, looks like your rates might be going double, triple or more, and finally--such huge numbers of enrollees have signed up for Medicaid which not only does not add money to the risk pool but also costs taxpayers more in taxes.

    I'm sorry but I can't give the Republicans credit for planning this outcome in advance. It is a side effect of being on the right side of the issue. The RINOs and moderates should be ashamed when they faltered in their support. I think they'll benefit from what Cruz started, and I think Cruz has talked his way into being a contender for the 2016 Presidential election. All because he stuck to his ideals when many in his party caved.

    There is no doubt now that there are few in America who don't understand that Obama and the Democrats totally own the Obamacare failure, and that they'll be blamed when it's time to vote. It appears to me that the Obamacare fallout can only get worse.

    I think the best Republican strategy at this point is to just let things happen, and crank up the "we warned you about that!" message, and continue pointing out that the legislation passed a Democrat Congress and was signed by a Democrat President, and that the Republican Congressmen did not cast a single vote in favor of the legislation.

    And Republicans should be prepared for continued Democrat attempts to blame the failure of Obamacare on Republicans, and on their opposition and failure to fully support it.

    I think there is still some residual negative opinion against Cruz and the Republicans, but I think it's declining and being eclipsed by the Obamacare rollout debacle. Now even MSM are running stories critical of Obamacare. Sebelius and her ilk are not helping matters by stonewalling, and Obama is subtly morphing his "you can keep your plan" into "you can keep your plan as long as it meets minimum Obamacare standards" and "it's the fault of the evil insurance industry that your policies are being cancelled or your premiums are suffering huge increases."

    I predict his strategy won't work. Obama and the Democrats are indelibly marked as the ones who foist this defective legislation on America. If I (and others) are right in predicting that it's impossible to fix Obamacare by the 2014 elections, or even the 2016 elections, then the Republicans may be set up to regain control of Congress and the Presidency and be in a position to correct this horrendous mistake. Republicans might even have Congress in 2014, turning the lame duck into a dead duck. He can veto all he likes and the Republicans will probably not be able to override his vetoes, but if so the Republicans will come out as the ones who are trying to fix it and Obama/Democrats as the ones who are trying to keep it broken.

    I think we can all agree that things can only get worse for Obama and the Democrats, and can only get better for the conservatives and the Republicans as long as they handle the situation well. Obamacare is destroying and disrupting the lives of many people, and those of them who are Democrats are all potential Republicans in the making. :)
  12. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    Are you sure it wasn't 'Shopped? Or at least, she was set up, right? Hand her the book and then she looks at it and hands {flash!!!} it back? If so, good work! :)

    Sebelius is one of them who is inadvertently doing a great job making Obama and the Democrats look bad, with her slippery avoidance of directly answering questions, her attempts to shift blame to others, and particularly her "I don't work for you, I work for the President" (so fuck off) attitude.
  13. rockotman

    rockotman Blown on the steel breeze

    Good work indeed, at least according to several websites:


    The Freepers are reporting that it was handed to her by the representative, as well.
  14. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    I love it! She got sucker punched! The bitch deserves it. She's been handing America smoke and mirrors for weeks, and then avoiding and filibustering questions from Congress... almost as if she had been coached by Obama and his ilk. (Duh.)

    As slippery as she has been it's nice to see her fall for a sucker punch almost = a bitch slap.

    I'd love to have been a spider on the wall as Obama saw that image...
  15. SixofNine

    SixofNine Jedi Sage Staff Member

  16. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Good God, these guys are idiots.

    But everyone still loves them.

    How can this be?
  17. Allene

    Allene Registered User

    It's beyond depressing!
  18. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    The ripples of the rock thrown in America's pond are growing ever wider, affecting Republican and Democrat voters alike.

    Obama said, "If you like your health care plan you can keep your health care plan, period." Now it turns out that "period" meant elipsis, a series of three (or several) periods... Wikipedia: "a series of dots that usually indicate an intentional omission of a word, sentence or whole section from the original text."

    I'm sure Obama meant ""If you like your health care plan you can keep your health care plan..." as in "except if you changed it one iota since 2010, or it doesn't meet Obama's standards, or if your sign is in the wrong constellation...

    If this thing continues to expand I can imagine a lot of previously Democrat voters crossing the line to get America fixed by removing the disaster/debacle that Obamacare has become.

    Tomorrow's elections will be interesting if any news media can tie election wins or losses to Obama and Obamacare.
  19. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

  20. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    Liberals are all kookie saying how racist they are.

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