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Mandatory Service?

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Biker, Dec 29, 2002.

  1. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Don't know if I agree with <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/12/29/mandatory.military/index.html" target="blank">this</a> or not. I like the professionalism associated with an "all volunteer" force.

    I had the opportunity to work with a few German "conscripts" back in the 80's. There was a huge difference in attitude between the draftees and the volunteers.

    Although I do like the idea of manadtory service on the surface, I think I'd rather stick with the all volunteer concept. We get a much better, professional individual out of the deal who knows exactly how to get the job done.
     
  2. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    I agree. Conscription blows.

    SM
     
  3. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Oh wait...Rangel's doing it for political reasons, not for the good of the country. Well then, I'm doubly against it.

    SM
     
  4. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Yup.. Although I don't think he has a prayer of getting this passed, the results if it DID pass would be disasterous.

    He's looking at it as something that would prevent Congress from approving the use of troops. Problem is, if we had to deal with conscripts as well, the military probably wouldn't be in much shape to do any fighting to begin with.
     
  5. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    As a member of the Armed Forces who volunteered one step ahead of the draft I have to agree.
     
  6. jamming

    jamming Banned

    That's why I think that we need a basic one year conscription, for basic and one year of service as a Basic Infantryman. Then make them an offer to go pro, reserves, NG, or get out. One year gets them one year of college tuition at any school they want. They could optionally choose Ameri-Corps or the Peace Corps, or a new Border/Airport/Port Security Service, Also.
     
  7. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    I wasn't drafted, I was sent to the Army by a judge...with a 4.0 at CSU Fullerton to boot ;) Man, was I pissed. Sentenced to Vietnam for the civic minded action of blowing up a chunk of the LA River rather than my neighborhood. I was in possession of an old stick of dynamite that had begun to sweat.

    At 19, I wasn't smart enough to call the cops and have them dispose of it...soooo, I devised my own cap and detonated it in a relatively safe place...inches from a clean getaway before the CHP caught up to me.

    The judge said, Mr. Coot...since you have shown such an affinity for boom boom, I'm going to order you to report to a military recruiter for immediate enlistment into the armed services.

    Given the times and the circumstances, I couldn't get into the Air Force or the Navy, and the only options left to me were the Army and the Marine Corps. I opted for the Army.

    Imagine that, a societal troublemaker is trained as a LRRP and then not allowed to serve with the 75th. I was assigned to MACV, running recon in the north and training RVN's. Really shitty duty.

    My enlistment was for 3 years...I served 3 years, 8 months and 15 days, as I was offered a nice chunk of change to re-up. I don't know if it's changed, but back then, when they gave you the bucks to stay in, they didn't take it away if you got your ass shot up and were deemed no longer fit for worldwide duty.

    I don't know, I think using the military as a training ground to reform misfits and to train youth has its benefits. I think a substantial amount of elitism in the form of how the service one provides is rewarded also should be considered.

    I know that I wouldn't be the kindly ancient person I am today without benefit of service to my country ;)

    If it's to be a forced volunteer sort of 'service', then I agree that bonus points or privileges be granted to those who elect the military or other dangerous occupation as their form of service.
     
  8. yazdzik

    yazdzik Veteran Member

    Dear Friends,
    There are two separate issues, the quality of the military and the quality of the citizenry. Whilst one can see that conscription may produce a few unwilling soldiers, one must also see that service to one's country, whether military or some sort of para-military social service cannot be thought of as optional.
    I have no solution to the military side, as I was one sassy draftee, having been a dual national with obligations to two countries. I did not, although the exact nature of my service is not public, end up in the dirt in indochina. For the record, I was shot at by more nationalities than most Americans can even name. It was not glamourous, nor do I wish it upon anyone, least of all my children.
    Yet.
    My daughter's political ranting, making Haywire seem like an calm, objective Oxford don in comparison, is based upon book learning from New York's private school system. Would she be a good soldier? Unlikely. Would she become a better citizen after having seen the world as it is? Undoubtedly. Am I willing to risk her life, or my son's, to fight an unjust war in a place about which I do not even care? Hard question. It is a lot easier not to care about Iran if one has never been there, a lot easier to hate the Vietnamese immmigrants if one has never seen a paddy.
    On the whole, the draft makes little military sense, if the sole purpose of the army is to be a type of business that wins wars. If, on the other hand, as Coot so touchingly shows, that the function is also social, then there must be a way to integrate the needs of the soldier and the citizen.
    I have said it too often elsewhere, and I apologise to those who will think me cruel, but I shall only help pay for the university of my young, and those of you who know me personally, know how deeply I love them, unless they serve the country. At some point, the Bill of Rights is not a free ride to shoot off one's mouth, carry a glock, avoid the cops, screw the courts, and avoid the gallows, but a reasoned contract between a disciplined citizenry and their servant government.
    To avoid service, even the risking of one's life, to such an ideal, may or may not be cowardly, but it is without question vile.


    Yazdzik
     
  9. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    I would see no problem for a draft, if only to defend the homeland, but I have a problem if used to fill the ranks so we can project our military powers overseas. Since I don't forsee any countries invading us anytime soon (not counting our Mexican border crossing friends :cool: ), I really have a hard time seeing why this is needed.
     
  10. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    We were never invaded in WWII. Cetainly the Pearl Harbor attack equals a WTC. Sometimes you project power so you don't have to defend the Ventura County line.
     
  11. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    Shiny, I consider Hawaii our homeland, even if not a state at the time. You do not? American territory and an American military base. I also consider the WTC an attack on the homeland, but it's not by a foreign state, and the volunteer forces are readily capable of handling the search and destroy terrorism mission. They are also more than capable of the power projection role you mention. I still see no reason for non-volunteer mobilization unless our own population is threatened by a force beyond that which the volunteers can handle.
     
  12. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    Our administration and many of citizens consider that we are open to attack on our shores. But I do agree that a draft is not needed for defense at the moment. I do think many of our population could use the discipline of two years in the Army.
     
  13. yazdzik

    yazdzik Veteran Member

    Dear Shiny,
    I almost always agree with you, but, with all deference, you understate. I believe that all of our population, male and female, could use the discipline of two years in the army.
    Best,
    M
     
  14. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Wow, I thought I was the only one who believed this.
     
  15. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    I stand corrected and I am in agreement.
     
  16. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    Alas, I feel they could do with eighteen years of disipline at home as well, but they aren't getting that either!
     
  17. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    Hell, if you spank the little brat you go to jail. But I agree, we could use more discipline in the home.
     
  18. Ravenink

    Ravenink Veteran Member

    While the societal benefits of military service are huge, I think there are people who if given the opportunity will learn the same lessons from alternatives. I do think the military does a great service to all who join it and over time gain discipline, respect, honor, and a hundred other traits that I have seen in almost every member of our armed forces. To be honest I prefer the company of those who have been in the military to those who have not. In general, I find them to be more considerate and responsible friends. There are of course exceptions.

    An alternative I would like to see offered if conscription were to be instituted for societal purposes is a strict martial arts regimen. I have never been in the any branch of the United States military. For medical reasons, I was informed by recruiters that I am ineligable. I do however believe I have had many of the same qualities instilled on me by a lifetime of martial arts that I would have gained from time in the military. When I speak of martial arts training however, I am not talking about the "American Karate (a blashphemous phrase if ever I have heard one)" that we subject our young children too. I am speaking of a dedicated master willing to go to extremes to instill discipline in his students. To be honest, I think if I were younger than I am (which is hardly possible most would say) I could not be trained in the manner that benefited me so. It would be considered abuse, and more than likely my master would end up behind bars faced with civil lawsuits for trying to simply do his job. I seem to have digressed. The point I was endeavoring to make, is that in a highly structured and ordered environment in which discipline is put at the forefront a young person can benefit greatly, whether it be from the military or not.

    I leave you now with the tenents I was made to recite perhaps 50 times a day for 10 years.

    Courtesy, Integrity, Perseverance, Self-Control, Indomitable Spirit.
     
  19. jamming

    jamming Banned

    The Marines have developed there own martial art that they practice now.
     
  20. Ravenink

    Ravenink Veteran Member

    pffffffft
     

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