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Lower the voting age?

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Techie2000, Nov 4, 2002.

  1. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Jedi, good post but I must disagree.

    First of all, the voter TURNOUT in this country is pathetic.

    In 1998 Congressional voting, the Turn out rate was a whopping 36.4%.

    I don't have the numbers for the last Presidential votes, but I am sure it's about 50%. Majority? Democratic representation?

    Is it because we have less people accessible to the voting? More people?

    Secondly, no one is saying that the draft will be initiated, I am just saying that if you are old enough to be drafter, no matter if one is or not, then you should be old enough to vote--and essentially drink.

    18 is not exactly 12 years of age.
  2. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Yep, perhaps it's time to remind everyone about the so called adults who have been swarming the voting booths with their abled bodies and brains? The voting turnout is pathetic, folks.

    Besides, just because you open it up to 15 year olds does not mean all of them will vote, only those that care about their future, understand what they are doing, whom they are voting for, and getting involved in political process of this country.
  3. John R. Beanham

    John R. Beanham Typical Aussie Male


    "First of all, the voter TURNOUT in this country is pathetic."

    I really must agree with this assessment. Australia was the first country to give women the vote and it is now universal AND COMPULSORY for all over the age of 18.

    I agree with this law and remember the sacrifice of many who gave their lives throwing back the Japs in PNG. The Japs had NO plans to hold elections once they subjugated Australia.

    We all grumble and groan about the inconvenience on election day but we (mostly) get off our arse and attend the polling booth. Voter turnout is always about 90+%.

    I know that the 'right' to vote should perhaps also include the 'right' NOT to vote but I disagree with the reasoning.

    Who can complain about 'the government' if they have not even bothered to cast a vote?


    PS,. I saw a bumper sticker in Tucson that read, "Don't blame me, I voted for Jeff Davis".
  4. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    John, that's a personal pet-peeve of mine on the forums. People who bitch and moan about the US government who never voted?

    What's wrong with this picture? :)
  5. Jedi Writer

    Jedi Writer Guest

    So if they did away with the selective service and thereby formally ended the draft your position would be what on the voting age? And why?

    I agree that 18 is not 12, nor is it 21. And in that context an added thought:

    You should visit places like Cancun and other resort or border areas of Mexico when at spring break and other times college students under 21 go just because in addition to the whatever else is there they can legally drink. Check out the problems that the local police and merchants have with the under 21 Gringo crowd and that specific drinking portion of the tourist population.

    This post and my other one finishes my case and I will be pleased to concede to you the final word on our discussion if you would like to respond.
  6. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Still 18.

    18 was good enough for the draft, after all the US Armed Forces thought that 18 was old enough, why not for voting for citizen's rights? 18 is also the legal age of when you can get married without your parent's consent. It's also when you become an "adult" and not tried for "statutory rape" for having sex with a minor.

    Observing Cancun during Spring Break is not a good observation. The teens go there for the sole purpose of drinking, boozing it up, getting laid, and partying. In other words, being rowdy is part of the whole Spring Break spirit. It's their venting session from days and months of College schooling. The best way to gauge the validity is to span the US, interview the 18 year olds and how would they vote, why, and would they even go to vote.
  7. jamming

    jamming Banned

    John do you get it as a Holiday or do you have to go to work that day also? I could see it compulsory if they made it a Holiday from work, but some people work 12 hour shifts and travel and hour two and from work, and then have to go vote also. I don't know if that is something fair to do. I am intrigued by the proposal for making election days a day off but I don't know if it is realistic because we can have as many as 4 or 5 a year depending upon run-offs.
  8. John R. Beanham

    John R. Beanham Typical Aussie Male


    "John do you get it as a Holiday or do you have to go to work that day also?"

    Our elections are always held on a saturday, whether Federal or State.

    Also, the first Tuesday in November (today) is reserved for a MUCH more important event than a Presidential or Congressional election.

    It is Melbourne Cup Day! The Melbourne Cup is universally known as "the race that stops a nation" and it does just that. The State of Victoria has a public holiday and the rest of the nation stops work to listen to or watch the race. It is the richest and best 2 mile handicap on the planet.

  9. Techie2000

    Techie2000 The crowd would sing:

    I'm not allowed to vote because of our totalitarian government...
  10. John R. Beanham

    John R. Beanham Typical Aussie Male


    "I'm not allowed to vote because of our totalitarian government..."

    I am willing to acept that you may well be mature enough to make a valid decision on this matter, but MOST ARE NOT!!!!

    Be patient, your time will come.

  11. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    That statement will not go a long way to convincing anybody you are ready. In spite of all the conspiracy theories and things we need to improve we still have one of the least totalitarian governments there has ever been. When you understand that you may be mature enough to vote.

    I am really worried how you will take finding out you cannot be president until you are 35.
  12. RRedline

    RRedline Veteran MMember

    I agree with you, Techie. However, there are plenty of 30 and 40 year olds who are immature and really don't make well thought out decisions. As I said, the line MUST be drawn SOMEWHERE. Most will agree that 2 year olds shouldn't get to vote and 20 year olds should. Well, how about a three year old? A nineteen year old? A ten year old? A fourteen year old? The line must be drawn SOMEWHERE.

    I agree with other posters though that the age for the draft, drinking and voting should all be the same. I think 18 is a good age really for all three. I still don't understand the 21 thing with alcohol.
  13. RRedline

    RRedline Veteran MMember

    Good one, Shiny! And he can't run for the House of Representatives either until he is 25! :(

    Hey Techie, I bet your car insurance premium is higher than mine is. Is that fair or is it discrimination against youthful drivers? Don't worry, before you know it you'll be 21. It's all downhill from there.
  14. Ethics, the site you referenced, by default tries to load comet cursors...known spyware and a bad choice to load folks..we return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.
  15. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Ah! Thank you!

    What's a comet cursor anyway?
  16. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    And MUST be BORN here, not naturalized, BORN.

    Rules me out! :) or is that a :(
  17. jamming

    jamming Banned

    Whew!!! ;)
  18. Techie2000

    Techie2000 The crowd would sing:

    For adults, its non-totalitarian but as far as minors go, the government mandates that I go to school everyday (I'm using it as a point, to be honest I find a few of my classes enjoyable) and then the school dicatates what I will wear that day with their dress code, dicatates what I will do that night with homework. That doesn't seem even a tiny bit totalitarian to you?

    If you compare it with the rest of the world no it isn't that bad, but the fact is the government forces me to do things and then manages other aspects of my life (such as what I wear) through the education system is actually itself, totalitarian. If they made school optional, then it wouldn't be totalitarian. To be honest, I would think that making school optional could fix quite a few problems. Large class sizes, getting stuck with morons who don't want to be there ruining your class, and also it could even change kids attitudes about school.

    Once I turn 18 it's the land of the free and the home of the brave. Until then I live under an almost totalitarian rule.

    As far as President goes, I do not need to be President to change or affect our government. I could always become a senator, or something else. And besides I need to "talk to" the supreme court before becoming President after losing against my opponoent...;)

    And yes higher insurance rates that I'm going to start paying next year are blatant discrimination. As much as some of the idiots in my demographic do get into accidents, the insurance company (who probably is enjoying their Bermuda tax shelter HQ while they look outside the Window and see Hartford...) screws me because of it....
  19. btdude

    btdude Veteran Member

    I'll just say that there are some awesome kids under 18 who are very intelligent, very thoughtful and provide awesome insight to life. There are also those who are the opposite. And, then again, there are adults who have these same qualities. If a person can be 17 to join the military, 16 to drive a car, 15 to work, why can they not be allowed to vote by the age of 17, or at least be say, a senior in high school.
  20. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    It seems to me the question should really be "What should the requirements to be able to vote be?"

    Age is clearly so arbitrary as to be meaningless. Poll taxes are illegal, for obvious reasons.

    I see nothing wrong with a test, though. A test to ensure that the potential voter understands some basic concepts about how the government works and is reasonably aware of the current issues. Nothing fancy, or lengthy, just provide some proof that you're not some yahoo with nothing better to do.

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