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Let Turkey into the EU

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Swamp Fox, Dec 15, 2002.

  1. Swamp Fox

    Swamp Fox Veteran Member

    This week's Economist talks about Turkey's eventual (I hope) entry into the European Union. I think it's abhorrent that it would not be allowed in - it's been a fundamental part of European history, and it's been a loyal Nato ally all these decades, so it should not be excluded just because it's predominantly muslim. And, let's not kid ourselves, there's that racist element in why the EU is so reluctant to allow that country in.
  2. jamming

    jamming Banned

    Leopoldo is going to burst a vein, Stanley. Now Canadians are picking on the EU too. Nice to see the US doesn't get all the Canadian Attention.
  3. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    Perhaps we should give Trent Lott a graceful way to leave the Senate. Send him off as the US liaison to the EU. Gets him out of the country and he can give them advice on how to deal with minorities.
  4. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    100% agree with everything you said here. But it's all US' fault you know.

    Before it was Soviet Union the boogie man, and now it's the US. Perhaps EU should check it's own skeletons in the closet before pointing at others.
  5. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    Let's not simplify too much. This is a tough, messy political problem. Muslims now make up a significant minority in many EU countries and are increasingly creating political headaches, refusing to assimilate, demanding all sorts of things like making Arabic an official language for some purposes. Turkey is a potential source of a huge number of immigrants woul wouild rather live in France or Germany than where they are. Opening the borders must look like a nightmare to the Euro pols. The potential political problems and economic factors -- costs of absorbing a horde of new folks including welfare benefits and the like until they get integrated into economies already suffering high unemployment must scare the pants of those guys. I doubt that Canada would welcome a million or so Turks in a short period, either.

    This is not nasty racism, although there is some of that, too -- so much as simply not knowing how on earth to deal with a mix of such different cultures, and real fear of the cost and difficulty of absorbing them.

    That said, I would like to see Turkey in the EU. Be nice to pass back and forth wwitho0ut going through passport control and the like. But I don't know how to solve the problems, either.
  6. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Bob, if EU ADMITTED that right from the start, I wouldn't say boo. However, when they point their fingers in Israel and US about how Israel and US treats Muslims and then, lo and behold has their own Turkish contingency to play with, they look more like the asses they are than anything else.

    And then there's the hypocrites to defend EU in their pathetic excuses of "Human Rights" abuses by Turkey.
  7. Leopoldo Niilus

    Leopoldo Niilus Registered User

    Robert Harris, sir :)

    Methinks you said all there is to say.

    Thank you kindly.

  8. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    Why thank you Leopoldo.

    And Leon, I agree that the Eureopeans are playing word games to look more noble than they are -- not uncommon. But we must admit that our political scum -- er, I mean leaders -- do the same sort of thing all the time. Runs in the blood of all pols, I think.
  9. claire

    claire Registered User

    Hi Robert,

    Two very good well balanced answers.
  10. MisManager

    MisManager Runs With Scissors

    Of course, this is a problem that the US has been grappling with for quite some time. Giscard's statement probably came closest to what many European politicians are feeling (and, gosh darn it, doesn't he sound a lot like Trent Lott??).

    Multicultural assimilation is not easy. To be honest, I'm not convinced that it's even possible. A culture serves as the backbone for a polity. The EU is experiencing this problem now.

    I, too, would like to see Turkey admitted into the EU. Of course, I still can't see the EU working in its current state anyway, so Turkey's omission may not be a bad thing for Turkey (despite how it looks at face value). The EU lacks legitimacy in the eyes of very many of its citizens (most of whom have never had the ability to even vote on whether their country should join). It is pulled in diametrically opposite directions by its various member states. Admitting more countries is, IMHO, folly before sorting out its existing problems (such as the CAP).

    The rebuff of Turkey was unfortunate, but not unexpected. Until the EU decides what it wants to be, it cannot answer the many questions that surround Turkey's admission (such as cultural issues, the geopolitical situation, etc.).

  11. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Well said, Eric. :)
  12. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    I concur with Robert on this. I would further emphasize that the EU in its current configuration has done no more than act in its own best interests extant. As such, there really is nothing unfortunate about this...particularly when one considers Turkey's latest internal political shift.
  13. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Democratically choosing a leader is a horror story. :rolleyes:
  14. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    It should be obvious that whatever the Turk's choose to do with respect to their own government can and will have substantial implications as to how they are perceived by their European neighbors. Again, there's nothing wrong with the EU acting in its own interests.
  15. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    Here is an example of on eof the probleems attendant on acquiring a large muslim population.

    MUSLIM WOMEN WITHOUT PASSPORTS FACING DIFFICULTIES IN TATARSTAN. A group of Muslim women from Kazan have complained to the chief inspector of the federal Interior Ministry regarding the refusal of the republic's passport service to accept photographs of women in headscarves for their passports, islam.ru reported on 16 December. Zulfii Fatkhullina of the Union of Muslim Women said Muslim women who have refused to have their passport photos taken without headscarves have faced difficulties because they don't have passports. One woman was reportedly refused admittance to the maternity ward of a local hospital, while others cannot find work or receive state-subsidized medical care. JAC
    RFE/RL NEWSLINE Vol. 6, No. 235, Part I, 17 December 2002

    We have at least one case here in the US of a woman suing because a state insists on a photo with face uncovered for a driver's license.
  16. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    How can a passport or driver's license picture be effective or mean anything if it does not identify the wearer? This kind of crap really wears thin. Think of the number of terrorists who could dress that way if we allowed travel on passports without pics. But damn, those woman must be either very beautiful or very ugly for the men to insist on hiding their faces.
  17. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    Good question. I guess the only answer is that Allah knows who they are, so mere secular authorities should mind their own business.
  18. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

  19. Basilio

    Basilio Banned

    Well, here is the way I see the idea of admitting Turkiye to the European Union.... Geographically it was argued that only 4% of Turkey is in Europe, but frankly all of Cyprus is in Southwest Asia, the borders of Europe are kind of arbitrary....
    I think Turkey should be made to show results in terms of its human rights situation and not simply pass legislation. Life must improve significantly for the Kurds otherwise they will want to leave Turkey en masse for Western Europe. If the human rights situation improves, more Turks would rather stay in their homeland. As far as poverty, I would dare say there is less poverty in Romania. Turkey needs to demonstrate progress and as far as its borders with Iraq and Syria before they get admitted, they will have to upgrade their security on the border like Poland has done with its eastern europe.
    As far as religion, the EU will eventually admit Bosnia and Albania which has a sizable Muslim population. I don't think religious differences should be allowed to divide people.....I do think Turkey must give more cultural rights to the Kurds, allow women with headscarves to attend colleges but while maintaining the strict separation of religion and state....
    It can all be worked out, but the Turkish must wait because they need to prove they can integrate.....
  20. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member


    Out of all people, Basilio nails the issues head on.

    Good post.

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