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Japan's Whaling Fleet Draws Ire

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Plunge, Dec 23, 2005.

  1. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    Now come on JD, tell us that there is no such thing as vote buying at the IWC and that the sole purpose of Japanese whale killing is for research. Tell us the demand for whale meat is high. Tell us Japan is not killing whales for commercial sale.
     
  2. Japanese daruma

    Japanese daruma Registered User

    there is no such thing as vote buying

    It is just a promotion of participation. The greater paricipation, the fairer and better result, reaching a true world consensus.

    the sole purpose of Japanese whale killing is for research

    It is clear. No doubt about it whatsoever, because they need to convince the world that the whale population has been growing and sustainable whaling is possible, which is a goal of research whaling. It is plain and simple.

    the demand for whale meat is high

    Sure, because of scarcity of whale meat, distrubutors are enjoying a large profit margin. At some schools, deep fried whale is the most popular lunch menu.
     
  3. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    What a pathetic interpretation of the facts.

    LOL. You're tarred with the same brush as your delgates at the IWC. You'll twist any truth to suit your own ends.
     
  4. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    One begins to wonder if there is any purpose to this thread. It seems to have devolved into a tit-for-tat contest.

    SM
     
  5. jfcjrus

    jfcjrus Veteran Member

    Oh sure, just as things might get interesting, not to mention nice and rowdy, along comes a mod, lamenting that the debate is not progressing within some unknown rules of Hoyle!
    Pfhhtt!
    I'm just trying to learn something from the plethora of posters frequenting this site, and could do without the grumpy spoilsports! ;)

    I, for one, was rather interested in this statement:

    First of all, I thought the demand for whale meat was so LOW, that they're offering it as pet food. So, when did demand become HIGH?

    Second, I thought whale meat was VERY fatty.
    Does deep frying it, for schoolchildren, require any oil?

    Just curious.
    Regards,
     
  6. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    It's been dragging on for eight months, man. Wars have ended sooner!

    SM
     
  7. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    Then close it Steve. Although a new one will start, most likely, when the next Japanese whale hunting starts down here.

    Its certainly in keeping with the character of GA to have threads that are short lived. I don't think that that is necessarily a good thing. Although having a topic discussed over a long period of time however doesn't necessarily make it a worthwhile debate. There is certainly not going to be any agreeement here, no matter how long the thread goes on, between myself and Japanese Durama who I see as typical of the Japanese attitude to whaling. I think this thread has has been worthwhile if only for the fact that the Japanese pro whaling attitude has been made clear.

    Some issues are long running sagas and this is one of them. If there is anyone who is not interested in the topic, as with all other threads, don't participate.
     
  8. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Not interested in closing it, just wondering why folks won't agree to disagree and move on? Doesn't look like anyone's going to be changing opinions here. :)

    SM
     
  9. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    Yes, it's a red button issue for me and a lot of others.

    There isn't going to be much opinion changing going on, I agree. Once the new whaling season starts there will be a raging debate in the media once again, but still I'd assume, with no one changing their stance one inch.

    The feeling here is one of being conned by the Japanese with their vote buying and claims of research. If they were more open and honest about their activities there may not be so much angst directed towards them. They are looking us in the eye, lying and "trespassing" in our backyard. Maybe we over react here but we feel so grossly offended by their actions that a lot of us would prefer to see a destroyer or two go down there and give them what they deserve.... just below the waterline.
     
  10. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Well, I think that killing people over it is probably a bad thing to do. Of course, I agree that whaling is bad news in general, and certainly nonpermissible if the whales in question are in danger of extinction. It would give the Japanese a small bit of good press if they were to forgo it, but that is apparently not to be.

    SM
     
  11. Japanese daruma

    Japanese daruma Registered User

    jfcjrus,

    First of all, I thought the demand for whale meat was so LOW, that they're offering it as pet food. So, when did demand become HIGH?

    I don't think that it is bad thing at all for someone to try to produce pet food, or dog food, from whale meat, if it really makes economic sense. Nowadays, some pets are feeded better than humans here in Japan.

    But before that, the question is whether such pet food actually exist or not. I am unable to locate any web site that sells pet food made from whale meat.

    The only advertisement I could locate on the net was this. This ad is for jerky for dogs.

    ※This product contains small intestines of baird's beaked whales,caught off the shore of Southern Boso Peninsula during the hunting season of July-August. Hunting is permitted by the Japanese Fisheries Agency as coastal whaling.

    If you go to web sites that sell fresh whale meat "on sale," their price tags read $30, $50, $80 for 100 grams of whale meat, depending on which parts of meat you want to buy. And yet, people are buying whale obviously.

    The reliablity of your source informaiton may need to be questioned.

    Second, I thought whale meat was VERY fatty.
    Does deep frying it, for schoolchildren, require any oil?


    Right under the skin, maybe, but you get a lot of low fat, low cholesterol red meat too.
     
  12. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    Japan's Institute for Cetacean Research freely admits that whale meat is being used in pet food.

    From BBC News.

    I don't see that you need to find an advertisement for whale meat pet food to substaniate the claim that it is being used for such. Just like you don't need to find an ad for tuna fish pet food when reject tuna meat is commonly used in pet food.

    From The Times comes this.

    And as far as the cost of whale meat is concerned, your claims JD, of high prices, are in contrast to these,

    Even cheaper than Aussie beef! How about that.
     
  13. Japanese daruma

    Japanese daruma Registered User

    ditch,

    If the potential consumption is really small as you insist, the whale industry is going to remain very small or, more likely, disapear in the end because of the market system, once whaling is commercialized.

    Let the market mechanism take care of the industry. Competition with beef, pork, chicken is the best way to drive out the whale industry all together, isn't it?

    In other words, you've lost one reason for anti-whaling: the concern over potential extinction by over-fishing. The pro-whaling camp has now gained another persuasive reason to appeal to the world community that it is time to lift the ban.


    But the Institute of Cetacean Research (ICR) in Tokyo said less than 100kg of a species not covered by a global ban was sold to a pet food manufacturer.

    What does this mean? Do you want to elaborate on that?
     
  14. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    Somebody, please, either stick a fork in this thread or tell me whether or not these whales are an endangered species. If not endangered, then I say kill 'em and eat 'em. No matter how badly we're treating whales, we're doing the equivalent or worse to humans and nobody is stopping that.
     
  15. joseftu

    joseftu ORIGINAL Pomp-Dumpster

    I think (I lost track some pages back) that we already established that minke whales are not endangered.

    But the discussion goes on! :)
     
  16. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    I lost track too. I believe I've read every post here although I may have glossed over a few of the longer ones. (Maybe my eyes glazed over.) I'm not willing to reread the discussion. I can write better tirades myself . . .
     
  17. Japanese daruma

    Japanese daruma Registered User

    Lovehound,

    Somebody, please, either stick a fork in this thread or tell me whether or not these whales are an endangered species.

    They say that there is no absolutely definitive answer for that. Thsu, research whaling is needed to determine whether or not the moratorium should be lifted.

    Your postition is probably closer to that of the Japanese government and other pro-whaling member countries of IWC.
     
  18. Japanese daruma

    Japanese daruma Registered User

    joseftu,

    I lost track some pages back

    Something similar actually happened at IWC. At IWC meetings, member countries are supposed to discuss how to best use whales as a resource while preventing their extinction. But it's been highjacked by those that oppose to whaling. That is the reason why the Japanese government introduced a bill of normalization of IWC, which was supported by the majority of the member nations, at this year's general meeting of IWC.
     
  19. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    I'd say that I miss reading the great majority of threads at GA because I either am not interested in the topic in first place, I lose interest and unsubscribe or I miss seeing them altogether. I fail to understand what the problem is with a long running thread. Just ignoring it is the best option if you are not interested.

    Any topic of little interest will appear to be boring and repetitive.

    Don't read the posts if you are not interested. :)
     
  20. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    I'm troubled when I feel that I don't truly understand the significance of a discussion. If I understand it but I don't care then I can dismiss it, ignore it. In this instance I feel that I still don't grasp it.

    If they are endangered then we shoud quit killing them. If not, then munch up. I don't really give a rat's ass if whales are cute or cuddly. I'll eat a deer or rabbit and not give it a second thought, and they are cuter and more cuddly than whales. I don't have any problem with shooting a deer or harpooning a whale although I've never done either. It's bound to hurt if you are food. I don't believe we really treat cattle any better than they treat whales.

    I'm not satisfied with JD's dismissal that we don't know that whales are endangered because JD is biased IMO, nor do I believe the justification that we need to research more (to eat more) until we decide if they are endangered.

    If anybody really cared whether or not they were endangered, the justification for more research would be better founded if they weren't feeding the meat to dogs and school children. That really gives the appearance of "screw 'em, we'll eat 'em until somebody proves we're driving the species to extinction."

    Count their population over a significant timespan. If they are declining then maybe they are endangered. You don't need to eat them to count them. If present populations are adequate and have sufficient genetic diversity, then eat 'em if you got 'em.

    I'm waiting for an authoritive answer to whether or not these hunted whales are an endangered species.
     

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