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It sucks to be this guy

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Steve, Jan 17, 2003.

  1. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    First off, let me say that I have no sympathy for this jerk. As far as I'm concerned, well, let's just say I agree with the implication the woman makes in the very last paragraph of the article.

    But you know, isn't this like kicking a dog, or something? This guy is a miserable you-know-what and doesn't deserve anything <u>better</u> than lifetime incarceration, but what purpose does it serve, hounding him like this? How naive to think this sort of treatment will keep him from offending again.

    Given the incredibly high recidivism rate of sexual offenders, should the "model" of rehabilitation be tossed out and the concept of permanent incarceration for public safety purposes be imposed?
  2. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    This raises hair (only on my neck since I am BALD!) when I read stuff like this.

    Should we just kill sex offenders and put them out of their misery? I mean really, if this is what humans are capable of in the face of these people, why bother?
  3. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    Well, it's what I'd like to do, in my gut, but I can't seriously advocate for it.

    I constantly struggle with solutions to dealing with the problem of predators. Make no mistake, this guy, and others like him, are no different except in intelligence, from a wild carnivore stalking a human with intent to kill.

    The question is, how to keep known predators out of the midst of society without undulying burdening that society with exorbitant costs?

    I don't know...
  4. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    I don't know either but the story above does not sit well with me. Shows me what some people are and I am not happy sharing the same taxology label in the species category.
  5. Domh

    Domh Full Member

    Sexual offenders are to be castrated and then imprisoned for life and given no chance of parole. There is no other solution.

    One who is unable to delineate sexually right from sexually wrong suffers from a mental affliction for which there is no cure. They failed to learn basic lessons during childhood which they will not be able to be taught as adults. The studies have been done over and over and over and over and over and over again. The conclusion is always the same.

    Those people who think that sex offenders can be 'rehabilitated' are the same pathetic, insipid little assholes who think that homosexuality can be 'cured'.


    ps - ask me how i REALLY feel!
  6. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    See, I agree, and I feel conflicted. On one hand, the rights of such a person should be minimal, given how that person has so severely violated the rights of others.

    But on the other hand, if we can't figure out a humane solution for dealing with these kinds of predators, how are we any different?
  7. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    For me, this says it all:

    <i>Siebers, 45, served nine years in prison in Michigan for armed robbery and rape beginning in 1979. <b>Months after his release, he was arrested for trying to lure a 10-year-old girl into his car</b> and was imprisoned for 10 years. </i>


    The people around him have every right to know who and what he is. If he doesn't want to be harrassed, he should leave the country and go somewhere else - like the North Pole - if he wants to live in peace.

    btw, didn't we talk about this guy before?
  8. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Misu, I realize your personal connection with this so may I ask you a question?

    What IS the solution for these people?
  9. Domh

    Domh Full Member

    'Rights' my pimply white ass.

    Americans are a hysterical and mildly pathetic people. They seriously think that a piece of paper with some writing on it and a massive military affords them something called 'inalienable rights'.

    Sorry, no such thing. If they were RIGHTS and they were truly INALIENABLE then it wouldnt be possible for them to be so easily and readily ALIENATED from us.

    What Americans call RIGHTS are actually GIFTS. They are given by the government and protected by the military and law enforcement. Please spare me any discussion of anybodys RIGHTS. The entire concept is patently illogical.

    The only RIGHT we have as humans is the right to die, once we are born.

    Nothing else is, or can be, guaranteed.

    When one individual sexually assaults another, they LOSE the gifts they have been given. Castration and confinement IS the humane solution to the inhumanity of sexual predation and offense.

    We, those of us who successfully distinguish between sexually correct behavior and sexually incorrect behavior, are VERY different from those among us who cannot do so... we know right from wrong and act in accordance with that knowledge.

    They do not, and are dealt with in accordance with their actions.

    It actually IS a cut and dry issue.
  10. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    I think given the fact that many of these guys have repeatedly attacked women and children - and it's a fact that each time they do so, it's more violent than the next - and given that psychological treatment does not work in every case, I believe that in extreme cases, the only way to stop these individuals is to castrate their minds.

    That is to say, lobotomize them.

    Castration has proved to not only NOT stop them, but it has often times made them worse. Jail time has proven to have not taught them a damned thing. Psychological treatment has proven to not work - in fact, I'm currently taking an Abnormal Psych course, and our prof. specified that out of all offenders in jail, the 1 population where all types of treatment have failed - including treatments such as aversion therapy - is the sex offendor population.

    It's not fair to keep them in jail forever, nor do I agree that we should kill them. There is something seriously wrong with them, something that we still do not know how to control. I don't normally agree with lobotomies, but what else is there? Medication to control them might work, but then we'd be left hoping that they take their meds - and a lot of them don't want to lose that power they have over others, so expecting them to take their meds is like expecting to find a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow - it ain't gonna happen.

    Now, if we could come up with a way to dispense meds into these guys bodies - like they figured out with birth control, where the women get implants that dispense a steady stream of meds for 3 to 5 years - then I would say let's try that first, and put them on extremely powerful drugs to control aggression. But if that doesn't work, then lobotomize them.

    They are most dangerous in their minds, not their penises (and sex offendors are not exclusively male) - their most dangerous weapon is their mind. Castrate their mind, and you nix the problem.
  11. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    Ahh! Lobotomy! I never would have arrived at that, but I like it. I like it a lot!
  12. Domh

    Domh Full Member

    Why is it not fair to jail them forever?

    Is it fair to jail anyone forever? It happens alot.

    Its more fair and humane to scramble their brains and let them back out on the street than it is to jail them for good or kill them?

    I disagree. I think they need to be jailed forever or killed.

    I do not think that there are any reliable medical procedures known that will surgically 'cure' sexual predation.
  13. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    As a taxpayer, I resent having to pay for these people to have three hots and cot, cable TV, library services, gymnasiums, etc. for the rest of their sorry lives.

    But perhaps the issue of prison reform shouldn't be confused with the issue of appropriate punishment for sexual predators.
  14. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    But Stevent, I reserve the right to clarify that IN EXTREME CASES. To me, a guy who was found guilty of forcing himself on his GF does not constitute an extreme case.

    Even the guy who attacked me, I do not consider that an extreme case (unless he's gone and done it to other people).

    Serial rapists, child molestors - THOSE are extreme cases. To me, the guy we're talking about from the article - he's an extreme case.

    He spent 9 years in prison for raping a woman (in front of an audience), and I assume that during those 9 years, he received some sort of therapy (sex offendors usually do, they don't just sit there and wait out the time). A few months after he got out, he tried to kidnap a 10 year old child. That man is not right. Whatever is wrong with him, it made him disregard the previous 9 years and therapy from his first CONVICTION (note I did not say first rape, as we just don't know) and go after a child.

    This man, by my criteria, would meet the minimum standards for a lobotomy. He had his chance, and he blew it. Now he's out, and he expects us to feel SORRY for him because the people around him know his history and are defending themselves the best way they know how - by putting on an extremely strong offense?

    Lobotomy or extremely powerful, self-dispensing drugs that control aggression, to me, are the ONLY solutions as of now.
  15. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    Oh, I'm with you. I will grant that, as repulsive a crime as it may be, a single instance of rape does not warrant lobotomizing a man. Serial rapists, child molestors....those are the vermin we need to control.
  16. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    Domhain, we know much more about the human brain than we did in the early 1900's, when lobotomizing someone because of schizophrenia was common. It's not scrambling their brains - it's removing a diseased part of their brain, much like removing a tumor.

    What is wrong with them is a disease. There is some part of their brain that is not controlling aggression and is making them behave in a sexually predatory manner. It could be about control, but that stems from aggression.

    I say it's not fair to jail them for life or kill them because I view it as a disease, one that needs to be treated. I'm not saying they aren't responsible for what they've done, but I think we've got enough proof of all other treatments that work on other mental problems to not work on them to say that perhaps this isn't just a mental problem, perhaps its a medical condition in the brain.
  17. tke711

    tke711 Oink Oink Staff Member

    As cruel as some will say it is, my vote goes for the death penalty, or life in prison with no parole, for child molesters and serial rapists.

    Since the criminal will inflict a life long punishment on his/her victim, the criminal has earned and deserves the same thing.
  18. Domh

    Domh Full Member

    misu - until we have the medical capacity to manipulate learned behavior, there will be no 'cure' for sexual predation and offense.

    to refer to it as a sickness indicates a belief that every person has the potential for behavioral, ethical and moral perfection - which is not true - we are not all perfect snowflakes.

    a great GREAT many of us are sick twisted, base, immoral, vile, horrible humans... who are just barely getting along with the humans around them.

    when those humans snap and offend, they NEED to PAY a PRICE - and that price needs to be hefty.

    its the only way we can PRESENTLY work to ensure that others around them will not snap and offend, for fear of paying a price they cannot afford.

    those that 'cannot help themselves' need to be identified as early as possible, and segregated. those that 'cannot help themselves' even though they know the price deserve to pay it.

    humans are still animals, big ass cranium notwithstanding. some survive, some do not.

    we THINK about it far too much.
  19. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    Domhain, many of us carry our own demons. The difference between those who are sick and twisted and don't harm others and those who are sick and twisted and do harm other is CONTROL.

    Those who don't offend are capable of controlling themselves. Those who do offend cannot control themselves. They know it's wrong, but they don't care. They can't control it. But again, I only advocate it for extreme cases. I would prefer that than handing out death.
  20. Ravenink

    Ravenink Veteran Member

    we'd need a whole lot of brain surgeons.

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