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Intriguing Stuff...

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Sierra Mike, Nov 20, 2002.

  1. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    ...I found myself most curious about the breakdowns of the Chinese combat capability. It hasn't changed a lot since the last INTSUM I read on it in 1994.

    Some nuggets here, but as always, MSNBC is more filler than news.

    Threat Breakdowns and Assessments from MSNBC

  2. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    I get a bad link. :(
  3. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Try it again--looks like they threw up a new front page.

  4. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Good stuff. No surprises though, how about you?

    I've said all along with Stanley that they are a paper tiger.
  5. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Well, this isn't a really thorough listing. :)

    As you might suspect, I have very little trouble finding young lions out there who feel that China is The Next Major Power.

    That they are almost all mainland Chinese does not surprise me.

    That they are almost all living in the US, Canada, or Oz is what surprises me. :) I guess this displaced nationalism is kind of like absentee voting here in the US, except less likely to mean anything. :)

    Should I post some prize snippets here?

  6. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    Please Do ;)
  7. jamming

    jamming Banned

    The have this little thing called numerical superiority also the ICBM's are still a threat to us. Along with the single Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine. Maybe a old sickly tiger with most of its teeth and claws pulled but not to be casually ignored.
  8. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Come on, Jim!

    That single boomer has been a practice track for years now, since it's the only one out there for our attack subs to play with.

    China has maybe 7 CSS-8 (?) missiles that could hit the US...and they're liquid fueled, in silos. The Chinese aren't stupid--launching a sneak attack with a handful of missiles that take several hours to prep and fuel is a lot like sneaking up on someone with a fire engine running with lights and siren. And what would the People's Congress do after that? Run outside to count the little pinpricks of light streaking in to see if the US launched a tit-for-tat counterstrike?

    Chinese numerical superiority comes into play in exactly one situation: We go in after them. It didn't exactly work in their favor in Korea, so I'm unconvinced it's a major-league threat, so long as any US forces are smart enough not to step in a bear trap lying out in the open.

  9. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Some slices of life from one of the other joints where I frequent, though rarely post:

    Chinese like peace, so they want to reunite with taiwan peacefully. Even though they can take it over with EASE. China aleady has 200 Su series fighter jets which is better than the F-15. What does that mean? Best fighter in south east asia. Taiwans F-16 A\B variant is pile of garbage compared to the su series which was desginged to kill the US air superiority twin engine f-15. F-16 is a single engine puke.

    You know, since the Chinese seem to lose supersonic fighters in 1v1 encounters with unarmed aircraft, I'd pay like a lot of money to see some Su-27s try and cozy up to a flight of F-15s. Or even F/A-18s, for that matter.

    "Where would the British counter attack be? That's a big coastline. They don't need to sacrifice 10men to kill one of the enemy like China did in Corea."

    oh thats easy comeon. The chinese A-50 AWAC will pick those boys up when they are 500 miles off the coast, not to mention they would be picked up when they leave port by chinese statellites and the russian glonoss staellite systems.
    In corea? wow you are brainwashed by the white man. When you consider casualties by northkorean+chinese vs UN + south korea. Its about 2:1. Not too bad. lol. Oh yeah only reason why US did not get annihalated was because she threatened to use nukes.

    UK would be hit so hard and so fast she would not know where it came from. The 70 diesal subs and new generation of chinese SSN will make short work of that.

    If the whole UK navy comes and fights chinese navy, 10% of them will go back home. LOL having caused little or no damage to chinese navy.

    Sorry for the bold face, but the constant thread in The Angry Asian Man Syndrome (TAAMS) is constant, belligerent rantings about the evils of The White Man. I should hasten to point out that in real life, guys who stand maybe 5'6" and weigh a buck twenty don't do this in real life, only in cyberspace. And in China, foreigners are always treated well by the Chinese.

    And the other constant thread is historical revisionism to make China look mightier than the entire West.

    Speaking of twisting facts to make one's point, here's an entry that almost sounds like science fiction:

    wow you are a smart monkey. The Russian and chinese ASCM are FAR SUPERIOR than US ASCM. The Russians and the chinese are the only countries that have successfully developed a ramjet ASCM.

    Britians little navy is a joke, china would wipe them clean off the face of the earth. New chinese DDGS are comparable to areigh burke the most advanced US dystroyers, and the new sovermany DDG EM (super DDG) will be either the best or second best DDG in the world.

    You are making a good fool out of yourself by talking about the military. Or the economy for that matter. Your statments are so ignorant and idiotic.

    Give me a break, even the US will have to send in 4 CVG groups to protect taiwan if they get there in time.

    You are a cocky ignorant chinese white wannabe. oh oh I got a name for you.


    ha ha ha ha ha

    Ramjet AMRAAMs? Like...you mean...the ones being developed by Air Force Missile Command? :) And what would four CVGs do around Taiwan during an attack, anyway? Will two of them host an intramural volleyball match while the other two spend a day beating the snot out of the Chinese PLAAF?

    Anyway, this isn't the really rancid stuff, but posts like these abound.

  10. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    It would also appear they have little serious knowledge of modern fighters and air warfare.
  11. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    I know. There are other posts detailing how if the US and China went to war over Taiwan, that Chinese soldiers already in the US would detonate suitcase nukes all over the place. I find that fairly ridiculous, since the Chinese leadership isn't that stupid. Inflicting that kind of harm would result in the decimation of Chinese society. (Along with a good chunk of everyone else, but hey, these are trying times.)

    These pint-sized ChiCom patriots talk a lot, but know very little. I made a detailed post some time ago regarding how a real matchup might occur, and was heckled for being a DWG...Dumb White Guy.

    So I swore at them in Mandarin. Seemed the least I could do, prove to them that I can not only speak Mandarin and write in perfect pinyin, while they're challenged by words such as "destroyer" and "stupid" (which they continually spell as "stupied").

  12. jamming

    jamming Banned

    I am not saying that they would start something Steve, but the nukes are serious issues, that shouldn't be ignored lightly. I agree they would be foolish to start something, but you have to admit they have done things that are foolish before and so have we.
  13. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Actually, I think they'll try and make a move on Taiwan after the 2008 Olympics. :)

    They still won't have sufficient sealift capability to move a significant number of troops, but the missile buildup in Fujian continues. The city of Xiamen is surrounded by missile batteries. And so far, the mainlanders have seen it fit to only add to the fortifications.

    At the same time, Chen Sui-bian has been making some rather bizarre situations lately. I was in Taiwan in August when he made the "two nations on either side of the strait" speech, and the feeling in Taipei was electric; half the people there were for it, the other half were against it. His speech served to do nothing but ratchet tensions, though for the first time in my memory, the PRC actually stood down for a few days before saying anything. The US, however, wasn't so kind; I believe the cautionary message to Taipei was along the lines of, American protection of Taiwan is not unconditional. Here's hope Chen was listening.

    But for the Chinese, Taiwan is an issue of face that's almost mind-boggling. It literally drives most mainlanders up the wall. The fact that Taiwan would become more reunification-minded if the PRC would to soften its rhetoric and maybe remove some missiles doesn't occur to them; they maintain that Taiwan is a pack of unruly children, and big brother is going to give them a spanking.

    Regardless...if and when NMD should ever pan out, then the threat posed by the Chinese nuclear arsenal would be severely diminished. And that's if they ever got a chance to use them. In a standup, I would move to remove those assets from the PLA inventory early on, and I could only assume those in control of the military would feel the same way.

  14. jamming

    jamming Banned

    I agree with what you wrote in the last post 100%, but I have two different ideas to suggest. What is they went for Taiwan during the Olympics? They could close the country's airports for a few days and have a ready made number of Stranded Visitors (hostages) amongst the celebrities and athletes. I agree that the Chinese Nuclear Arsenal would be high on the target list of any military action by another nation. I just don't think it is something that should or could be ignored.
  15. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    I daresay the Chinese nuclear arsenal would not be ignored...and would be destroyed first in a mid-intensity conflict.

    As far as the Chinese taking hostages, that would be a big no-no. Too many nations are providing foreign investment there, and denial of economic income would seriously cripple the PRC.

  16. jamming

    jamming Banned

    Not hostages, Stranded Visitors, no overt moves made against them just some safety precautions at airports that take time to implement, sort of like what happened here during 9/11. Think sneakier Steve.

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