1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Impact of Divorce

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by HaYwIrE, Dec 20, 2002.

  1. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    I guarantee you that crime would drop off of the charts. :_
    If parents were more involved in their childrens' lives and not getting divorced the way they do, we wouldn't need stricter punishments from the judicial system.


    ethics: Thread split from <a href="http://www.globalaffairs.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5296">this thread</a>.
     
  2. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    Haywire, you just opened up a whole other crate of cans of worms with this statement. And I must add my comments because of it.

    I don't think divorce has anything to do with the state kids are in these days. On behalf of everyone who's ever divorced their spouse, they are entitled to happiness. People change, and marriage is a HUGE factor in what affects people and how they change. Sometimes, people grow apart, and being forced to be with someone forever and ever until the day you die just because you married that person 15 years before is a waste of time. If that person stayed the same person you married, then chances are that YOU changed. No one stays the same - everyone grows and changes. Experiences one has as they live forces those changes.

    Now, because a couple divorces doesn't necessarily mean kids aren't being parented. I think there's more to today's kid being 'bad' than bad parenting. I think it's a combination of things -

    Bad Parenting, of course, is first and foremost. Parents are the single most influential thing on a kid's life. This is not an easy role to undertake. Sometimes parents are bad parents and they don't mean to be - parents are people to, and are entitled to have problems, but they're not entitled to forget they have kids. As parents, it's their jobs, their God given DUTY, to put aside their troubles and put their kids first. Once the kids are taken care of, then deal with problems.

    Schools are a BIG MESS these days. I don't think it's liberalism or religious freaks or conservatives or any single-other labeled group that are having a negative impact on schools. The schools of today are not the same as those even I went to school in just a few years ago. School administration is like politics - a lot of ass kissing, a lot of campaigning, etc, because everyone gets a say in what goes on in schools. Lots of greed in schools, too - especially when it comes to overpricing simple school functions, like painting walls or buying new textbooks. Honestly, some of the prices that schools are paying for such simple things as maintenance is insane. And that's that it's all done in-house.

    The Media - which includes movies, tv, music, video games, printed media, and internet - basically, anything we use to communicate. Kids get conflicting messages - on one hand, your parents and your teachers are telling you smoking is bad, premarital sex is bad, drugs are bad - then you open up YM, and one of their articles is how to best pleasure your boyfriend orally... You rent a movie, and the main character lights up a cig after having sex... You drive down the street, and the 20 foot billboard on the road shows a nerdy guy holding a case of budweiser, surrounded by 15 nordic DD-chested blondes...

    In short, our society is undergoing major changes. With the advent of the internet and satellites and telephones, people communicate with each other much more quickly, and because of this communication, we're changing more and more rapidly every day. Being that humans are creatures of habit, change is never met with open arms - we need time to adjust, to process this change, and to normalize to it.

    Also, we live in an extremely free country - more so than the majority of the world. Freedom comes with a price. Is the price too high when it concerns the welfare and well-being of kids? I'm not the one to say - I have no control over what the kids down the block from me do, nor how their parents raise them (unless they're abusing their kids, in which case I will call CPS on them). All I can control is myself and my kids (of which I have none, but if I did, I would do the best I could by them).

    Finally, in closing, I do want to state that I don't believe that all kids are bad. I think we're suffering from the effects of exposure to the media - when all you hear about is the bad stuff, it seems like everyone is stabbing their kids to death when they win custody of them (like some crazy lady did this morning in a county close by to me) and everyone is kidnapping their kids and then killing them, and every kid is taking guns and drugs to school. These things have ALWAYS happened - people have done evil and stupid things ever since we learned to use our thumbs and walk upright - does it mean the world is going to hell in a handbasket? NO. Because for every 1 idiot in this world, there's an army of good people ready to make up for that evil.
     
  3. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    Do I see a thread split coming?

    Divorce has a tremendous amount of impact on the way kids are these days. How you could think any differently is beyond me, Misu.

    The overwhelmingly vast majority of inmates... be they in juvenile corrections or adult prisons... were raised in single parent homes, mostly by single mothers.

    And no... not all kids are bad. Not even all kids raised in single parent homes are bad. But most "bad kids" are raised in single parent homes, and any "bad child" out there either:

    A) Has a mental problem
    B) Was raised in a single parent home, and/or
    C) Doesn't have parents fit enough to raise a dead gerbil.
     
  4. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    I knew that was coming.

    Well, I may be wrong on some things. Most of the "outspoken" ones here disagree with just about everything I say. That's fine.

    But on this issue, I am 110% correct. Parents are the key to stopping the crime and un-ruly children in this country. And divorce makes it 10 times harder so they just "let go".

    Yeah, adults have a right to be happy and get divorced if that is what it takes. But once a child is brought into the picture, those same adults have pretty much given up many so-called "rights" such as that.

    A child requires 100% of the parents' attention, love, dedication and responsibility. Once a family is split up, that child's chances have dropped significantly. Not because of the divorce itself, but because of the pig headed parents' lack of attention to that child.

    This is generally speaking and I know that there are those who were raised in single parent homes who have become upstanding citizens. But their numbers are significantly lower than those who were raised in a complete home with parents who gave a shit.
     
  5. Coriolis

    Coriolis Bob's your uncle

    I tend to agree with both of you, sort of. Haywire makes a valuable point. Divorce can have a negative impact on a child's self esteem and sense of security. It is the lack of these qualities in children that can <i>potentially</i> lead to behavioural problems. I don't think there's much research out there that disputes this claim (note the emphasis on <i>potentially</i>).

    That said, it is perhaps too much of a blanket statement to suggest that children of divorced parents are destined for the gutter. We all know that parents who stick together can also rear children with behavioral problems. In fact, there may be as a by product to bad "spousal chemistry" a negative impact on children as well. Parents who stay together for the sake of the kids, but who continue to show distain, intolerance and lack of respect for one another, are also doing their children a disservice.

    By no means is this a cut and dry issue.
     
  6. BigDeputyDog

    BigDeputyDog Straight Shootin Admin Staff Member

    I'd like to chime in on this subject, for I feel that I am more than qualified being a divorced parent twice.

    My first marriage produced a son. That marriage ended in divorce. My son was a straight A honor roll student, a delegate to the Governor's convention, was in "Who's Who in Teen America", received a scholarship to a very nice private college and is an Eagle Scout. He is NOT a bump on the judicial system road. Quite the opposite. He is now a man with a good job, newly married, and settled down in a small town in the southeast.

    My second marriage produced a daughter. That marriage ended in divorce. My daughter is currently in high school. She has been the president of her class, a cheerleader, a member of a very select choral group, an accomplished player of the viola, an honor roll student, and has chosen to go to medical school to be an orthopaedic surgeon. She hardly qualifies as a threat to society either.

    Both of my children are loving, caring, giving, nurturing individuals. It really pisses me off when there is a generalization made that children of divorced parents are doomed...

    BDD...
     
  7. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    The numbers don't lie, but I'm not about to look them up again. I've been through this argument too many times with people who still want to dispute the facts. They're on at least one of the Judicial Justice websites and show quite clearly that most <small>(I THINK IT'S CLOSE TO 85%)</SMALL> criminals were raised in single parent homes, and the vast majority of them were raised by a single mother.

    Sorry if the facts piss you off, but they <b>are</b> facts. And it's not a generalization. As sad as it may be, it's a statistical fact. :(
     
  8. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    BDD, I may misquote, but there are three kinds of lies, lies, damn lies, and statistics.

    If you take 85% of the prison population (and I doubt that just because of who posted it) were of single parent households that figure would still be a very small percentage of children. The figure may show that there are issues with single parent raising of children, but it damn sure does not make children doomed if their parents divorce.
     
  9. RRedline

    RRedline Veteran MMember

    Hmmm...perhaps people with poor parenting skills are, for whatever reason, just more likely to get a divorce? Maybe these people who have poor parenting skills are more likely to raise unruly children and are also more likely to split up with their spouses? That would be a completely different explanation for the correlation.

    HaYwIrE, correlation does does imply causation. I do agree with you, though, that it is easier for two parents to raise children than it is for one. I doubt that anyone will argue with you on that point.
     
  10. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006



    Looks like your leaving did great things for them. :)

    My kids had mixed experiences. The oldest went through a bad few years with drugs and all that crap, much of which I do not like to think about, but snapped out of it and is now active in Narcotics Anonymous and a successful real estate saleslady. My two sons seemed not to have really noticed that I was gone, and grew up, went to school and college, got good jobs that they haven't lost yet. Ome married and has given me two grandchildren. The other never married and may never, although he always seems to have a go=irl friend around. (He is now about 33) Maybe watching me and his mother soured him on the institution.
     
  11. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    <b>PSYCHOLOGICAL HEALTH PROBLEMS </b>

    Single parent children 3 to 4 times more likely to have emotional or behavioral problems

    ( Zill and Schoenborn, National Center for Health Statistics, 1990)

    84% of teens hospitalized for psychiatric care come from single parent homes (1989 study, cited by Hewlett, When the Bough Breaks)

    <b>HIGHER SUICIDE RATE </b>

    Teens who attempt suicide similar to non-suicidal teens in age, income, race or religion, are more likely to have little or minimal contact with their father (Study of 752 families by New York Psychiatric Institute, cited by Hewlett)

    75% of teens who commit suicide are from single parent homes (Elshtain, The Christian Century, 1993)

    <b>MORE ALCOHOL AND DRUG ABUSE </b>

    18% of children with strict and involved fathers used drugs

    35% of children without fathers used drugs (1988 UCLA study, cited by Hewlett)

    Children in father-absent homes are 4.3 times more likely to smoke as children in father-present (Stanton, Oci, and Silva, 1994 survey of 1037 15-year-olds)

    <b>GREAT FREQUENCY OF SLEEP DISORDERS </b>

    More trouble falling asleep, more nightmares, and night terrors (Psychiatrist Alfred Messer, cited by Hewlett)

    <b>PERSISTENT FEELINGS OF BETRAYAL, REJECTION, RAGE, GUILT, PAIN </b>

    Lasting for years with a renewed intensity at adolescence

    Two-thirds [of father-absent children] yearned for the absent parent, one-half of those with an intensity we found profoundly moving. (Wallerstein and Kelly, 1980, Surviving the Breakup)

    <b>LOWER SELF-ESTEEM </b>

    Especially true for girls (Dr. Robert Fay presentation at NCMC conference, 1992) (Davidson, Life Without Father: America's Greatest Social Catastrophe, Policy Review, 1990)

    <b>LOWER ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENT </b>

    38% of elementary students from single parent homes were low achieving, while 23 % of both parent children were low achieving (Nat'l Assoc. of Elementary School Principals report, city by Hewlett)

    30% of children from father-present homes were high achieving, while only 17% of children from father-absent homes were high achieving.

    <b>LOWER MATH SCORES </b>

    (Yale University study by Carlsmith, cited by Hewlett) (Cortes and Fleming, 1968)

    <b>GREATER FAILURE RATE </b>

    Elementary students from fatherless homes or homes with mother and a stepfather have to repeat

    (National Center for Health Statistics study of 47,000 households by Deborah grades at a rate 2-3 times higher than children with both biological parents Dawson,1991)

    <b>LOWER SAT SCORES </b>

    "Dramatic" lower scores for students from father-absent homes (Columbia University and Bowling Green State University study of 295 from father-absent homes and 760 from father-present homes, cited by Hewlett)

    <b>LOWER IQ AND ACHIEVEMENT </b>

    Children who lost fathers before age 5 scored lower on Otis Quick Test and Stanford Achievement Test as junior-high and high-school students (Santrock, 1972) (Hetherington, Cox, and Cox study, 1978) (Cortes and Fleming, 1968)

    <b>MORE LIKELY TO DROP OUT OF SCHOOL </b>

    Children from fatherless homes twice as likely to drop out of school ( US Department of Health and Human Services, Survey on Child Health, 1993)

    <b>LESS LIKELY TO ATTEND COLLEGE </b>

    (Wallerstein, Family Law Quarterly, 1986)

    <b>HIGHER RATES OF CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR </b>

    Fatherless children are twice as likely to become criminally involved (Margaret Wynn, 1964) -72% of adolescent murderers, 60% of rapists, and 70% of long-term prisoners grew up in father-absent homes (US Department of Justice data, 1991)

    <b>GREATER DELINQUENCY FOR BOYS </b>

    87% of Wisconsin juvenile delinquents are a product of father-absent homes (Wisconsin Department of Health and Social Services, 1994)

    70% of juveniles in state reform institutions grew up in father-absent homes (US Department of Justice data, 1988)

    Young black men raised without a father are twice as likely to engage in criminal activities (Hill and O'Neill, 1993) (Matlock in Adolescence) (Siegman, 1966; Anderson, 1968; Kelly and Baer, 1969)

    <b>GREATER DELINQUENCY FOR GIRLS </b>

    (Monahan, 1957; Toby, 1957)

    <b>MORE VIOLENT MISBEHAVIOR IN SCHOOL </b>

    Children who exhibited violent misbehavior in school were 11 times as likely to live without their father than children who did not violently misbehave (Sheline, Skipper, Broadhead, Aamerican Journal of Public Health, 1994)

    <b>GREATER CHANCE OF BEING PHYSICALLY ABUSED </b>

    Preschoolers living without their biological father were 40 times more likely to be a victim of child abuse as compared to like-aged children living with their father (Wilson and Daly in Child Abuse and Neglect: Biosocial Dimensions, 1987)

    Premarital pregnancy, out-of-wedlock childbearing, and absent fathers are the most common predictors of child abuse (Smith, Hanson, and Noble, Child Abuse: Commission and Omission, 1980)

    <b>GREATER CHANCE OF BEING SEXUALLY ABUSED </b>

    69% of victims of child sexual abuse came from homes where the biological father was absent (Gomes-Schwartz, Horowitz, and Cardarelli, Child Sexual Abuse Victims and their Treatment, 1988)

    <b>MORE DIFFICULTY IN INTERACTING WITH MEN AND MALE PEERS </b>

    Daughters of divorcees aggressive, forward with boys and men

    Daughters of widows shy and timid with boys and men (Hetherington, 1972)

    <b>YOUNGER MARRIAGES </b>

    Daughter of divorcees marry at younger age (Hetherington, 1972)

    <b>MORE UNWED PREGNANCY </b>

    Girls from fatherless homes 111% (over 2X) more likely to have unwed pregnancy (Warren Farrell presentation at NCMC conference, 1992; Hetherington, 1972)

    <b>HIGHER DIVORCE RATES </b>

    Girls from fatherless home 92% (nearly 2X) more likely to divorce (Warren Farrell presentation at NCMC conference, 1992; Hetherington,1972)

    <b>LESS MASCULINE</b>

    (Santrock's study of 4- and 5-year old, father-absent boys) (Rogers and Long's study of 6- too 15-year-old boys where father employed away from home community, 1968) (Hetherington's study of 9- to 12-year-old, father-absent boys, 1966)

    <b>MORE LIKELY TO SUFFER ACCIDENTS AND INJURIES </b>

    Fatherless children 20-30% more likely to experience accidents, injuries, and poisonings that did father-present children (Remez, Family Planning Perspectives, 1992)

    Compared to children living with father, fatherless children experience more accidental injury, asthma, frequent headaches, and speech defects (Dawson, Journal of Marriage and Family, 1991)
     
  12. joseftu

    joseftu ORIGINAL Pomp-Dumpster

    I certainly don't think kids whose parents divorce are "doomed." There are too many counter-examples.
    (There are also plenty of examples of kids who had trouble with drugs, alcohol, crime, and so on, whose parents were happily married and stayed that way).
    But.
    I really think divorce hurts kids. It's sometimes unavoidable, and I wouldn't judge anyone who feels they have to take that step. But it still hurts. It hurts a lot, in a lasting way, and it damages those kids. Sure they survive (in most cases), sure they can turn out to be totally fine in the long run, but I think they carry the scar with them forever.
    Lots of times, I know, the parents staying together might actually be worse. But the lesser of two evils is still a bad choice.
     
  13. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    Jesus H. Christ, people! :rolleyes:

    Why the Hell can't you just agree to the <b>fact</b> that most kids who have "problems" are from single parent homes??? :huh:

    Why can't you just say, "<i>Yeah, kids who have one parent <small>(MOST OFTEN THE MOTHER)</small> homes have a lesser chance of "<i>making it</i>" without "problems" than do kids with a stable family life.</i>"??

    That is what the split thread is all about, isn't it?

    But, <i>Nooooooooooooo</i>. HaYwIrE said it, so it <b>can't</b> be true. It <b>can't</b> be fact. :rolleyes:

    Well, <small>AND I'M GONNA LOVE THIS...</SMALL>

    Nuff said. :_
     
  14. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Statistically, more kids who are from divorce families have more problems than kids from two parent households.

    How's that?
     
  15. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    That's divorce<b><u>D</u></b>, ya damned Liberal. :nut:

    Smart ass. [​IMG]
     
  16. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

  17. LissaKay

    LissaKay Oh ... Really???

    OK, let's say, just for the sake of argument, that all those statistics are accurate and prove a causative relationship between single parenting and problem children ...

    What is your proposed solution?
    How would you fix this problem?

    Millions of Americans want to know ...
     
  18. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    Easy, Demi. Do not let people get divorced. Force them to fight it out until one is dead.
     
  19. LissaKay

    LissaKay Oh ... Really???

    But then the kids are still left with a single parent ...

    Or maybe NO parents. The survivor would be in prison for killing the other parent. And we all know how well kids do in the foster care system. :rolleyes:

    It has been found that it is not the fact of divorce, or living with only one parent that causes the majority of the problems with these kids ...

    Anyone care to take a guess what it is?
     
  20. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    I <b>am</b> part of the solution. I <b>am</b> working to fix the problem. My son will <b>not</b> be a fucking hoodlum sticking bats inside of a sandwich he prepares for a customer.

    But, let's just see now...

    <li> Just off the top of my head, teaching our children by <b>example</b> by working for a living instead of mooching off of every government fund and AIDE program that exists <small>(AS OPPOSED TO CREATING MORE OF THEM)</small> would be a start.
    <li> How about parents giving a shit about where their child is at any given time of the day... much less night.
    <li> Maybe participating in their childs' life a <strike>little</strike> lot more would help.
    <li> Saying, "<i>Hell no! Stay your ass at home a little more!</i>" would help.

    Look... I know it's hard raising children, especially in this day and age of two income families. But before we go planting a sperm cell into a woman, we need to look at what the responsibilities are behind such an act. It's not just about carrying on the familt name. It's about being your childs' friend... mentor... guidance... teacher.

    Having a child is a serious responsibility that way too many so-called adults take for granted. If they didn't and adhered to the fdew steps that I've mentioned, we wouldn't have but maybe a small fraction of the crime and trouble with kids that we do today.

    This has nothing to do with correlation, people. This is absolute causation. That is an indisputable fact, regardless of how few single parent homes raise upstanding kids who amount to a hill of beans.

    Parents are the only solution, but that's too much like work I reckon. :(
     

Share This Page