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I am pissed about this war

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by IamZed, Jan 11, 2003.

  1. IamZed

    IamZed ...

    We will defame our nation. We will shoot first. What are we after that?
    I will do my part. In actual war you have to give things up. No problem. I was on call for 6 years in the guard and would have been glad to carry out the dictates from on high.
    But what threat is this bastard we are to go off to kill to us?
    I know my government has it all planed down to the last cannon shot. We will dice up that country like a piece of Swiss cheese.
    But why?
    I spent the afternoon lunching with a German friend. He scared the shit out of me by talking about how little was said as Hitler took power.
    I just sat there, knowing that this time next year we would be sitting there sharing food stamps.
    Even the winner looses in war.
    I believe this will creep beyond any initial objective. The words World War Three echo in my mind. We may wind up fighting several Moslem states at one time. It will not be a fight that can be won, as no faith can be quenched from the earth.
    Where will we all be next year?
  2. Ravenink

    Ravenink Veteran Member

    Any causal chain involving WWIII constructed on the basis of conflict in Iraq would be fairly creative I would think.

    Could you also perhaps make a direct connection between the fascist government of Hitler and our present circumstance? If one looks with that perspective in mind, a few things could be picked out, but I fail to see any evidence of this which sustains objective review.
  3. IamZed

    IamZed ...

    I will grant you the weakness of comparison. My German friend had many strong points yet none that could cut the razor.
    What he was basically getting at was the complacent idiocy of the voting populace when the cannons finally fire.
    I may be alone in this fear, but I fear that we will start a war with all Moslems. That would be horrible.
  4. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    If we were going to start a war with all Muslim's, it would have happened the second we set foot inside Afghanastan and started kicking Taliban butt. Didn't happen then, won't happen if we cut loose in Iraq.
  5. bruzzes

    bruzzes Truthslayer

    You indeed have valid concerns as do we all in this matter.
    Thank you for bringing this subject up once again.

    Rather than revisiting the views from the political left or the political right of which there are numerous threads in this forum or giving a historical series of events to dismiss the appearance of hypothetical connections to Germany, it would be nice just to hear the valid purpose of this endeavor.

    It is my opinion, that the underlining principle has become national security. Not, oil, regional control, or a battle of civilizations.

    The danger of terrorism has elevated itself into a global issue that affects all nations and people.
    This cancer must be removed before it infects the whole body.
    One can wait and hope that the world community or body can fight it off with individual antibodies with the hope that it does not spread to other organs that would kill us all, or one can surgically remove the tumor while it is still relatively localized.

    It appears almost like a God-Given decision entrusted to man.

    I cannot say this is the correct decision or incorrect.
    But I feel it is necessary for action now, rather than waiting for it to spread.

    Hopefully others, we sound in with their opinions.
    I know mine are simplistic in nature.
    But sometimes we over analyze and look at the complexities rather than the essential cause.
  6. IamZed

    IamZed ...

    But what up with the CIAs total denial of Sadams involvement? He is an enemy. Are we just seeing him as such? We are geared up to fight terrorists. We are off to fight non terrorists. What the fuck is up with that? Did Vietnam teach us nothing, or do we need to collect and stop the return to oblivion?
  7. IamZed

    IamZed ...

    You know I dont think that made any scene? Oh well, its fun to be alive.
  8. bruzzes

    bruzzes Truthslayer

    Dis-information and mis-direction are the arts of war.

    I am a bit confused on who you percieve the enemy to be.

    All Muslims?
    The people of Iraq?

    Terrorism in itself, and the governments that support those terrorists have become our enemy and the enemy of mankind.
  9. jamming

    jamming Banned

    I will point out that this is a continuation of the earlier war in Kuwait. A cease fire was negotiated on the principle that Iraq would comply on the UN resolutions. Iraq has had over 10 years to comply and refused to do so. We have shown great patience, as they have shot at our planes in the no fly zone, tried to assassinate a former President, and generally not complied with the terms of the agreement that they entered into. They have had three Presidential Administrations to male a real effort to comply.

    This is also what worries North Korea, for they have had over 50 years to make an effort to comply and work towards an agreement, beyond an Armistice. They reason they are kicking and screaming now is they realize that they could be next. This is their best chance to deal with the issue with conditions favorable to them. Iran has not realized their situation as the third objective, mainly because we are have put them last on the list of three. We are hoping and praying for a peaceful or nto intermal move of the Iranian people to reject the religious leadership of Iran.

    Your German Friend is wrong because we are not firing first in these conflicts, these wars have been going on in the background. Now is the time to deal with them, but pointing the administration pointing it out like this directly would undermind and harden the opposing countries. The North Koreans have figured it out which in part is why now, I only figured it out this morning when I tried to piece everything together. I knew there was something I was missing in the equasion and I think that this is it.
  10. IamZed

    IamZed ...

    I do not foresee all Moslems as the target of my revenge for 9/11. I believe that afternoon myself and all that I knew decided that. Mission creep in the upcoming war may though. The concept that we will go to war with simply one nation is too 90s. We will not.
    The instant we place a US stooge on the throne we will have alienated all Arab nations. They have oil and we will take it by force.
    I do not see this stopping at any initial objective.
  11. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    I'll just post a cutout from another thread, as to my views on why Iraq.
    The reasons for this sediment can be found in some of the research I've done because of these forums. Amazing what you can learn when you read.
  12. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    I'm not so certain that the US will be placing a "stooge on the throne," per se. But insofar as Iraq goes, we will certainly install the ability to return to a more democratic process than what is currently available.

    It will also send a message to the rest of the ME region that we now mean business. While we have over the decades implored regimes such as the one in Saudi Arabia to change so they might be better suited to represent the wills of their people, they have in fact refused. Perhaps a demonstration of what might one day lie in store for them is in order? A real show of resolve using Iraq as an example would make a fine display.

    And even as I write this, one of the most twisted theocracies continues to seethe for reforms; that would be our once bitter enemy Iran. Perhaps a change in the orientation of Iraq would serve this grass roots movement for change, as well?

  13. IamZed

    IamZed ...

    Those are fighting words Steve. The fight will come over us like a storm. There will be no tomorrow to figure things out in, it will happen right off. It is what I would do were I they.
  14. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Really? So you reckon it's acceptable for us to exist in fear of what they might one day do, especially in light of what they have already done? To what extent would you allow them to cross the line?

  15. IamZed

    IamZed ...

    I do not live in fear of what they (big question) will do to us. It is what we will do that scares me. I live in fear of my own trigger finger as it has begun this problem of twitching irregularly.
  16. muddly

    muddly Guest

    Rather than imploring, the U.S. could always remove the military protection of the Saudi regime, which is about the only thing keeping the inept House of Saud in power in the first place.

    SANG (the Saudi Arabian National Guard) which is responsible for repressing internal revolt (a.k.a. the "wills of their people") is trained, armed, financed and advised by the U.S military.... its purpose is to crush homegrown attempts at regime change. Any.

    Under those circumstances, imploring the Saudi regime about the will of the people rings hollow at best. And it almost guarantees that any popular replacement for the Saudi regime would be as un-American as the people could make it... maybe something that would make the Taliban look liberal in comparison. The real price for that "cheap" gas is maybe only now becoming clearer.
  17. jamming

    jamming Banned

    Please Muddly, what would happen if we started to treat our allies that way. Say the First Americans in Canada wanted to revolt and we didn't train Canadian Soldiers at our Military Bases as we do for some schools now. You would be the first to object to our not holding up to our agreements as an ally. We do have principles that people should understand, don't threaten us and ours and you can pretty much do what you want. We might not like it or approve, but our concern are our own security.
  18. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    (Not only that, we don't finance the Saudi Guard. And they fight like girls, anyway. :))

  19. IamZed

    IamZed ...

    The house of Saud may be our problem and objective. I picked them to be my favorite country when I was a kid. I had no idea the country used to be called Arabia. There are things within things as we grow closer. What we will do will be idiotic. Kill everyone will be the thing we come home remembering. It will not stop with one nation. I repeat myself.
  20. muddly

    muddly Guest

    Jamming, I was just suggesting that perhaps the U.S. shouldn't be criticising Saudia Arabia's various human rights "problems"... at least not while simultaneously helping to perpetuate them. If I was a politician, and I was in charge of delivering those lectures to the House of Saud, I would have to get really, really drunk first. I don't know how those guys do it ;)

    Steve, don't spread that around about the Nat. Guard, for the sake of the poor lads... fighting like a girl is no doubt a beheading offense. Merely dressing like girls caused some Saudi gentlemen to receive sentences of 2,400-2,600 lashes... in manageable installments of course.

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