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Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by HaYwIrE, Nov 4, 2002.

  1. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    From <a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/830384.asp" target="_blank"><b><u>MSNBC.com</u></b></a>.....

    <i><b>Gay sheep that mate only with other rams have different brain structures from straight sheep, a finding that may shed light on human sexuality, U.S. researchers said on Monday. The differences are similar to those seen in some homosexual humans, but probably only go a small way to explaining the causes of different sexual preferences, the team at Oregon Health Sciences University said.</b>

    <small>WE ARE not trying to explain human sexuality by this study, Charles Roselli, a professor of physiology and pharmacology who led the study, said in a telephone interview. Whether this is a big component of what contributes in humans, thats still debatable.

    Working with a team at the U.S. Department of Agricultures Sheep Experiment Station in Dubois, Idaho, Rosellis team studied 27 sheep 10 ewes, nine rams that mated only with other rams and eight rams that mated only with females.

    The gay sheep are strongly homosexual, Roselli said.

    They dont pair-bond, he said. But they are exclusive. They dont court or mate with females. They only court and mate with males.

    First the scientists watched the sheep to be sure of their behavior something that cannot be done with humans. Then they took apart their brains.


    There had been reports in humans that a certain area of the hypothalamus, the preoptic area ... was usually larger in males than females, Roselli said. This area was also found to be larger in heterosexual humans than in homosexual men.

    But the researchers had used the brains of men who had died of AIDS in their study, which meant the disease or drugs used to treat it could have had an effect on the brain.

    With an animal model you can be more selective and do more controlled studies, Roselli said.

    The sheep had similar differences in their brains, the researchers told a meeting in Orlando, Florida, of the Society for Neuroscience.

    In a sense we confirmed what been found in humans, Roselli said.

    The brain cells in this area also made greater amounts of an enzyme called aromatase in the heterosexual rams. Aromatase is involved in the action of testosterone, the so-called male hormone.

    This does not mean the gay rams had less testosterone in their brains, Roselli stressed. It is not necessarily the activational effect of the hormone, he said. Other types of neurons are probably active they just have not found them yet.

    No differences in testosterone relating to sexuality have been found either in the sheep or in humans, he said.

    Its not that gay men have lower levels of testosterone, he said. And its not the case with these sheep.

    Roselli believes that exposure to hormones while still in the mothers womb may affect the brain and cause differences in sexual preference, and more experiments will aim to show whether this is true.</i></small>

    So, isn't this essentially saying that homosexuality is a brain disorder of sorts... only in a very carefully worded and "Politically Correct" kind of way? I have always thought this and have been flamed as a hater... bigot... and/or "Politically Incorrect". It's even been said that my beliefs on this issue make me some kind of "<i>closet fag</i>". :rolleyes:

    Now, this is not to say that homosexuals are "<i>retarded</i>" or anything like that. But shouldn't this be considered scientific evidence that homosexual brains are structured closer to that of a woman than that of a man? And would this not be considered a mental disorder or at the very least, an abnormal brain structure?
  2. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Well, that also would be applicable to prodigy kids. Their brains are different also.

    All this tells me, and I've always been a believer in this anyway, is that homosexuality is something you are born with, not something you pick and choose.

    edit: grammar.
  3. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    Re: Re: Homosexuality

    True. True.
  4. John R. Beanham

    John R. Beanham Typical Aussie Male

    AS the father of twin, gay, sons I also believe that it is genetic. I am certain that there is a 'gay gene' that runs in my side of the family and as a genealogist, I was amazed at the number of un-married and married/childless men in my line.

    Just an unproven theory I know but I believe it.

  5. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    John, I never knew this. Both are gay, correct?

    I've been friends with too many gay men and women (hey, it's NYC) and I've gotten the truth out of them through torture, drunkeness, and lie detector tests. ;)

    In all seriousness, I think this is very important study not for people like me, you, and Haywire, but for people who still think that Homosexuality is a choice.

    Perhaps one day, the study will be announced for humans.
  6. John R. Beanham

    John R. Beanham Typical Aussie Male


    " people who still think that Homosexuality is a choice."

    I often wonder just who in their right mind would "choose' the homosexual life given the, even now, social stigma and rejection involved in such a choice. Also, knowing the horrible risk of AIDS (we lost Michael, one of our twins after a 6 year, enormously courageous, battle with the disease) I cannot imagine such a risky choice.

    I am certain they have NO choice.

  7. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Shit, I am soo sorry, John, I didn't know. :(

    As to your question, I don't know.
  8. jamming

    jamming Banned

    Does this mean that prebirth gene therapy could be developed to cure homosexuality? So that Homosexuals would be non-existant in the future? What if they developed a nano-technology that would build the brain back to normal size and structure? What would your reaction be to this, RRedline and BTDude?
  9. RRedline

    RRedline Veteran MMember

    At least it suggests that people do not CHOOSE to be homosexual. You can call it whatever you want to call it. Perhaps it IS a disorder by the literal definition - I really don't know. If it is, then there certainly are a lot of "sick" people!

    I don't mean to keep thrashing religion, but what does this say about Christian beliefs against homosexuality? If it can be proven that it is a biological trait, then wouldn't that mean that God made us gay? Why then would he condemn us(read Leviticus)?

    What I am curious about is why this happens with so many different species? What possible advantage could having a small percentage of homosexuals in your species have that evolution has decided to pass it along? Any theories?

    P.S.: HaYwIrE, you are such a closet fag! :happy:
  10. RRedline

    RRedline Veteran MMember

    I'm not sure. If you had presented me with a magic pill several years ago which would turn me straight, I'd have swallowed it and asked for another just to be sure. But now? Hmmm...not sure. I would much rather that society got cured of its homophobia instead.

    As for stopping homosexuality using gene therapy, well I'm just not sure about that either. I can't say that I think it would be a bad idea, but I also don't see that it is necessary. Stopping cancers and other horrible diseases using this type of technology is a no-brainer, but sexuality traits is another beast. I just don't know. :huh:
  11. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    I'm answering after your request for clarity...RRedline has answered with a perfunctory..."Well maybe...how the hell should I know...probably wouldn't be my first choice." Asking him or others this question is pretty much non-sequitar as the only answer they have is from their own life experience. Presuming the premise of the article, answers such as you're seeking are unknowable and for the most part irrelevant. These people are living the life handed to them as best they can...just as your are or anyone else.

    To ask the question, "Hey, we have a cure for what ails ya'...you up for it? Begs the question as to whether they see it as an issue as they're pretty much busy playing the cards they were dealt.

    Rephrase the question towards prospective parents, and I'm quite sure you'd get the answer you're looking for. For a variety of reasons, this particular genetic trait is one that most parents I know would rather not pass on....whether or not they accept that some of their children are of this persuasion...or not.
  12. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    Re: Re: Homosexuality

    Asshole. :rolleyes:
  13. jamming

    jamming Banned

    I understand that, but I was wondering if there was a coorelation between this and those people of the Deaf Community that are offended by the Cochler(sp?) Implant that allows children to hear, when born without hearing. What if a treatment meant an end to any vibrant culture, would those with that issue that developed this culture, be offended at that?
  14. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    I think, indirectly perhaps, that's what Coot was driving at. If you ask parent's if they want their pre-born child to be gay or straight, how many would say gay?
  15. btdude

    btdude Veteran Member

    I've said this before, and I will say it again, I am just as much man as any other straight guy in here. In fact, my brain as a gay man may be larger, because I have to think of different ways to combat such ridiculous research. My fingers are large, what does that mean? We need research to find out why homosexual men and women do not have life and health insurance for their domestic partners. We need reaserch to ask why it is that straight men like to play jack off with other gay men. We need research to find the connection between bisexual, homophobic or closet gay men and the statements they make that supports only their misunderstanding of a way of life that is in my view, genetic. This is silly.
  16. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Re: Re: Homosexuality

    BT! The size comment by researches was sort of, kind of taken taken out of context.

    It wasn't that the entire brain was larger it was a special area, hypothalamus that was. Which, in essence, means:

    Which doesn't explain much since they also say there's no difference in testosterone production between gay and straight males.

    More research is definitely needed.

    Oh didn't they say that bigger fingers meant that you had a... oh never mind, that was disproved. ;)
  17. btdude

    btdude Veteran Member

    And, in reply to the gentleman who had one of his sons die from complications from AIDS: MY HEART GOES TO YOU.

    I have had to deal with this illness for many years now, as 2 of my best friends died from the same complications. WE ARE ALL effected by this, folks. I spoke at both of my friends' funerals, and guess what? It was not about what he DIED from, or that he was a gay man. It was about the fact that he was a human being who died. I spoke of his life as a wonderful thing that we needed to celebrate. Let's not turn this into something evil, Haywire. ANd, while I am here, I do believe that Redline was joking with you, when he called you a closet FAG. Now, unless he is correct in that statement, you had no right to call him an asshole.

    Gay men are not "destined" to get HIV/AIDS as a punishment. And, before you find a research study that supports your view that gay men started this all, I invite you to find the current reasearch that indicates that more and more it is the bisexual white male, black females and younger gay males who are most likely to be infected. BTW, a little knowledge here: HIV is the virus that causes AIDS. AIDS in itself is the by product, if you will.
  18. btdude

    btdude Veteran Member

    Sorry, Ethics . . . about the finger comment, I mean. I was holding up one particular finger when I read that amazing reasearch finding. I'll edit the post, if you want me to.
  19. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Nah, man, no need for that. We are pretty laid back here. ;)

    I know this topic is close to home for many, so I am trying to be a bit more sensitive here myself. :)
  20. btdude

    btdude Veteran Member

    I am not sure how to respond to this. If you are joking, I would say to you that I do not WISH to be cured, given that I have had to shape my entire life on what I know I am. Would I ever PURPOSELY CHOOSE this? Probably not, given the society we live in. DO I want homosexuality to be completely engineered away? Never. That would be like saying that one rac, religion or whatever else is not good enough, and we have to get rid of it. We all know that gay men and women, people of color, etc. all have wonderful contributions to make to this world. How boring and hopeless of a world would we live it, if we did not have these people around?

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