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Discussion in 'General Questions' started by -Ken, Jan 4, 2003.

  1. -Ken

    -Ken Guest

    I would like to point out a very dangerous thing is happening, which could very well destroy what makes this forum great.

    It is not sniping, personal attacks or any of the other subjects we have discussed. It is what I have chosen to call "homogenization".

    This is how the process works. We make sure every time someone posts anything, which doesn't agree with the majority, we jump on it. We insult, point out "facts" provide links and badger the poster until he wonders why "he" posts in the first place. The middle of the spectrum seems hell bent on chipping away at the farthest ends of the spectrum until there is nothing but the middle left.

    We claim to value diversity of opinion here. Sometimes we see ourselves differently from the way others see us. While we may claim to value the differences of opinions, we seem to be constantly working to change them. If someone posts something that is not considered to be the norm, ten people jump on the poster and explain why we shouldn't think this way. Should we not immediately conform to the "advice" we are told, "we refuse to learn".

    Speaking from personal experience, the only thing this does is discourage any viewpoint which isn't in complete lockstep with the generally excepted wisdom from being posted. The end effect would be to eventually make this place a ghost town of new ideas and instead become as useless as the EL became when it moved to one uniform thinking.

    If this is what you want, I wish you would all just let us know. At the risk of revealing something bordering on personal, we almost lost two members yesterday, including me. While I am not as conceited to think my leaving would affect this place drastically (if anyone even noticed) it would remove one more voice added to the noise here.

    You guys want to all gang up on people and yell opposing opinions down, not a problem, you will get your wish. This place can quickly become a morgue. Without two sides to a debate, there is no exchange of ideas. I come here to learn, laugh, put forth my opinions and listen to others. I am finding it tiresome to continually hear how someone else's opinion is right. While I love a good argument, I get really tired of the knee-jerk reaction <i>especially when the responders don't even dignify the thread by reading the linked article or posts which came before in the thread.</i>

    Hey, here's a half-assed opinion, opinions are just that, opinions. None of them are right and none are wrong. That's why we call them opinions, otherwise they would be facts.

    Pronunciation: &-'pin-y&n
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin opinion-, opinio, from opinari
    Date: 14th century
    1 a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b : APPROVAL, ESTEEM
    2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view
    3 a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based
  2. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006


    Good post -- except that you paint with too broad a brush. The identities of those doing the jumping on you is known, and the number is small compared to the total membership. And they are usually as wrong or right as you are. :)
  3. -Ken

    -Ken Guest


    I neglected to point out, I am guilty of this very thing too. Your point is well taken but I'm afraid even if the number is small, the effect can be devastating. I was hoping if I brought this to everyone's attention it might be food for thought.

    Thanks for the response, I appreciate it.
  4. Sunriser13

    Sunriser13 Knee Deep in Paradise

    You better <b>not</b> go anywhere!!!

    Crimenently, Ken, I'd have to come all the way up to <i>Vermont</i> (I think that's what that little blip over to the right of my US map is called), enlist the aid of that "other" Dawn we know so well, and hogtie you. Then we'd call Aria and tell her to bring her toys, so we could make sure you're listening. Our dear Yazdzik will deliver the dialogue, which would be ultimately designed let you know just how much of an important part of this community you are. Once we have your attention, you would be placed back in front of the keyboard to apologize to the board for scaring us all so badly...

    We love you, dearheart. No matter what anyone says, you are a needed foil to the some of the extreme views from a few of the other folks around here. Where would be the balance if you were not here to help preserve it?
  5. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Sorry if I've held opinions that were counter to yours, Ken. I don't "jump" on things because they represent the left, middle, or right. I jump on them when I think they stink.

    I've had members refuse to accept what I say is the gospel, refuse to accept it as clear and delineated thinking, and refused to accept my propositions could even be right at any point over the next million years. So what?

  6. -Ken

    -Ken Guest

    Excellent point Steve,

    I wonder how long you would continue membership if every post you presented was attacked, you were made to be the brunt of jokes and told you were an idiot at every turn.

    I know you are a resilient guy but I also know you would not stay in a place that told you that you are not valued or welcome.

    Would you consider that to be a fair evaluation?

    Thanks Sunriser, I appreciate the thoughts.

    Everyday we post here, we are given feedback in the form of responses. Each of us has a point where the hassle becomes not worth it. Should we decide to devalue our members to a point where they are just cannon fodder, we will lose people.

    If this forum gets to a point where it is not supplying what we need to take away from it, there will be no point coming here. The forum will survive. The names will change.
  7. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    Yeah, Steve. A lot of what you say stinks, too. So what. Welcome to the club. :)
  8. jamming

    jamming Banned

    Maybe I am different, but what you call a hassle, I call facing adversity. Maybe its because I am a depressive (or just spiteful) but some of my best feeling threads is when I am facing the opposition of everyone. It makes me feel like I am making a difference even though it may actually be a voice trying to be heard over the howling wind. Besides, someone has to keep Robert humble and that's a full time job in itself. ;)
  9. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    And a waste of time and energy. It is impossible. :_
  10. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    Ken, Sunriser is correct. We need someone to represent the side of the starry eyed idealist. We need to be reminded that the poorest and the weakest in the world are there so we do not forget them. You do a great job in voicing that side.

    But your issues with posters on this board who oppose you is you take everything personal. In a post yesterday you accused me of insulting you when the post was so obviously meant in humor and to lower the temperature that I was at a loss how you could have taken it as an insult. My humor was directed at liberals. On social issues, personal rights, and notably abortion I am as liberal as most. But you take issue and a personal insult.

    On another occasion you and I went at it in the UIF. Next thing I know I have become a target of your barbs every time you post.

    My point is not to attack you. My point is to make you aware you are taking issues way to seriously. You give barbs whenever you wish but if we disagree with you or sling a barb or two we are trying to silence the opposition. You are allowed humor but we are not or else you are the sole arbiter of what is humor and what is not.

    Your post at the head of this thread strikes me as being very close to somebody saying quit picking on me or I will take my toys and go home. You are not treated any differently than anybody else on this forum. If you get more opposition it is because you take the opposite view so often. Are you seriously suggesting we just ignore you? Do you want us to not disagree when we do? I am at a loss to know how to respond to your posts. You are asking for special treatment. Please define it.

    Now if you really want to engage in discussion I think most of us are willing to discuss. But if you just pick this post apart and take bits as insults that's your choice. Just don't expect us to step on egg shells every time we respond to your posts.
  11. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    So is this thread just an exercise in whining, then? Because so far, I see nothing here but you shedding some tears over not being taken seriously.

    This is ridiculous. You can do what everyone else does and make your arguments. People will either be compelled to agree or disagree based upon the merits of those arguments. If people agree with you, clearly this is not a problem from where you stand. If they disagree, I'm not certain why you elect to make posts such as this one, when the alternative is clear: take another look at your arguments to identify where/if they are faulted. Argue those merits for what they are worth, change those that are faulted.

    As for myself, no, I probably would not stay at a place where I was not "wanted." That having been said, if you feel this is the general attitude of the forum, and that you are not "wanted," then you know what to do.

  12. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    My point exactly! How often have I resorted to posting threads like this on? I don't take it that personally.

  13. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member


    Ken, I am sorry you are in the minority but with that badge comes responsibility and thicker skin. I see responsibility but I don't see the thick skin.

    You cite one thread where you felt people were bashing liberals. Start a new one bashing conservatives. If you don't want to be insulted, don't come here. As a matter of fact, don't go to any forums. Even the ones with a majority left leaners. Your ideas will be attacked, checked, ridiculed. It's how I learned when mine are, and continue to be.

    I mean this to you and anyone who feels attacked. The mods here do a well enough job in splitting and moving threads. I don't want that full time job everytime I feel someone's IDEAS are attacked.

    Your ideas will continue to be attacked, sometimes you will personally be attacked (which will be split and moved) but I am not sacrificing this forum for the sake of people being afraid to voice THEIR opinion in opposition to yours.

    P.S. The above does not equate in asking you to conform to the ideas of others.
  14. -Ken

    -Ken Guest

    You're right Steve!

    Ethics please delete my account, I will not be returning!
  15. midranger4

    midranger4 Banned

    I think we need a third man in rule like in hockey :)
  16. jamming

    jamming Banned

    :( Sorry, I hit the edit button.

    Me and the Man of La Macha love tilting at Windmills.
  17. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member


  18. yazdzik

    yazdzik Veteran Member

    Speaking of homogenisation, does anyone else here feel the end of western civiliation began with the removal of gold cap milk from deliveries in London?

    Can anyone tell me, for that matter, what the advantage of homogenisation is, in either society or milk?

    It removes the inherent flavour and texture from both.

  19. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!! rofl
  20. Ravenink

    Ravenink Veteran Member

    I love you martin.

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