1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

French ban Religious Symbols

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by ditch, Dec 18, 2003.

  1. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    The wearing of [Excuse the lay terminology] Muslim head scarfes, Jewish skull caps and other highly visible religious icons such as crcifixes, is to be banned at schools under new French laws. This is the sign of an intolerant society reacting to a multi cultural / multi religion community or is it a way to achieve homogenity when difference and identification is being strived for by the various groups involved?

    Given that it is not a perfect world and therfore an intolerant one, I agree with the Frogs on this one. Viva la similarite!!

    :) A little detail here.
  2. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    Some comments from La Monde.

    Not the best translation but I think you get the idea.
  3. Sir Joseph

    Sir Joseph Registered User

    Interestingly enough, the Jews in France agree with this. It used to be that they were opposed for obvious reasons. Now however, they say that the scarf is not merely a scarf but is indicitive of a more intolerant culture and they agree with the ban. While they will ban yarmulkas, they will not ban baseball caps, and a baseball cap is a yarmulka.
  4. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    As if banning visible symbols will have any effect on the underlying issues.
  5. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    Well I dont believe there will be any effect on the underlying issues Steve. its not this that is being acted on here. The wearing of symbols is a very powerful statement, thats why they are worn. Being "out of uniform" atleast while being at school, is a move in the direction of removing differences and promoting similarities, broadly speaking. And that is a positive move IMO.
  6. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    Sorry, I don't see the intent the same way. From the article you linked:

    "Muslim leaders in France said although the ban would also cover symbols from other religions, it mainly targeted Islam and would further isolate Muslim people in the country."

    It seems clear that, rather than promoting solidarity, this will have just the opposite effect. In fact, given the depth of conviction held by many Muslims and the general second-hand status of females in Muslim groups, I would think that many Muslim schoolgirls will be pulled out of school rather than have to be subjected to this new ruling.

    Cultures grow by embracing and absorbing the differences that "outsiders" bring to them, not by trying to minimize such differences. No one ever said it's an easy process, but it's the only viable one, in the long term.
  7. Violet1966

    Violet1966 Stand and Deliver Staff Member

    Geez seems a bit over the top to me. Some teens love to wear a crucifix as simple jewelry because they enjoy the look of the cross, and they can't? Why? Does that cross say anything bad to anyone??? If I was a teen in France, and the system told me I couldn't wear a cross as decoration....I'd be sure to marker it on with a sharpie every day on my hands or somewhere visable. I was nuts like that when I was a teen. Who the hell are they to tell someone they can't wear a religious cap or scarf or symbol that hurts no one?? Even if it's not worn for religious reasons? What are they afraid it might spark interesting conversation within the walls of the schools??? So narrow minded. I have been dissallowing what's been going on with the US and France to affect my feelings for them, but this one just rubs me the wrong way. Rediculous :crazy:
  8. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    This move by the French is prompted by anti Muslim sentiment. Simple as that. The French have been living with Jewish skull caps and Catholic crucifixes for a long time. So now that there is so much anti Muslim sentiment in the world and the fact that France has the largest Muslim population in Europe, they see the need to introduce this law. It is anti Muslim, pure and simple.
  9. Fiona

    Fiona Veteran Member

    I'm all for one race, solidarity and all that...... but if they say my son can't wear his cross to school which he loves and is A religious symbol... (but not why he wears it) then i'mma gonna be one pissed muthah
  10. Fiona

    Fiona Veteran Member

    yet you say its a positive thing? color me confused :nut:
  11. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    Fiona, the French move is prompted by their anti Muslim sentiments.

    The move however, regardless of the French motivations, is IMO positive. I agree with the principle of not displaying highly visible religious icons done so, in the majority of caes I believe, to advertise and promote differences from all other religions and allegiance to your own. I dont support the idea of promotion of differences for the sake of it and in many cases this is a major reason for the wearing of these items.

    Ideally we should all be able to wear whatever we choose and have all others tolerate it. That is idealistic and history has shown that humans are not tolerant of differences when it comes to religion. The promotion of similarities leads to or is atleast a step in the direction of harmony. The wearing of religious icons is a statement of like mindedness with others who do the same and a statement of being different to those who choose to display alternative icons or none at all. Why do any of us, at least when it comes to relgion, need to wear what amounts to an advertisement that we are different from some and belong to a specific group?

    As to you saying you'd be pissed at your son not being able to wear his cross, despite what I have just said, I understand your anger. The French law though is specific as to the size of the icons that they intend banning and small is better so they say.

    Underpinning all this I think, is the inability of a good many people to tolerate another person's religious beliefs and the insistence of some, and I dont mean the simple wearing of a small cross, to adopt an in your face attitude with regard to their own religion. One more thing, its an unfortunate thing that the French, and Italians I think, have seen it necessary to go to these lengths. It shoudn't be necessary but the government is reacting to public sentiment. A sentiment that I don't share.
  12. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Passed Away Aug. 19, 2006

    The movement to have Muslim girls wear headscarves is political rather than religeous. Millions of Muslim women do not wear such things and are not violating any religrous requirements. The Islamic supremecists are pushing the head scarf issue. Peraps the burqa will be next. :)

Share This Page