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Fire them all.....

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Biker, Feb 1, 2003.

  1. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    <a href="http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20030130-001/page.asp" target="blank">Tired of teachers threatening to strike</a>. Should do like Reagan did with the air traffic controllers. Go on strike? You're fired. Teachers should be considered "essential" services and prohibited by law from striking.
     
  2. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    While I'm not familiar with the uses of the particular case you mention I agree with you in principle. Of course we have similar problems here sometimes and its not limited to teachers. Ambulance drivers, doctors employed by hospitals, garbage collectors. Any essential services should have their services available at all times. Their right to strike en masse should not be allowed but their right to have it arbitrated and resolved should not be taken from them.

    Unfotunately some essential services seem to believe the essential nature of their work is a powerful lever to be used in pursuit of their cause. Immoral and unethical of them if they do think that IMO.
     
  3. melpomene

    melpomene Banned

    biker, short term solution for a long term problem.
     
  4. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    How so? Isn't the education of our youth far more important?
     
  5. tke711

    tke711 Oink Oink Staff Member

    Here in Wisconsin, it's against State Law for teachers to strike.

    Of course, this didn't stop the Teachers Union from threatening an illegal strike if their candidate didn't win the last Governor election....but I digress.... :(
     
  6. Cariad

    Cariad cymru am byth

    ok, I'll fall for the bait.

    Pay them a decent wage, and improve working conditions and they might not want to strike.

    ...and of course the education of our children is important, perhaps if the parents tried it once in a while they'd realize how difficult it is.
     
  7. Ugly

    Ugly Fish is Brain Food

    What? The average wage over $40k is insufficient?
     
  8. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Average teaching salaries in Ontario range between $39,189 and $68,617. Lord help us if they have to do something extra that isn't covered in their contract. It's quite common for a teacher to "miss" parent/teacher meetings and conferences. Seems all they're in it for now is the almighty paycheck and the kids are just a secondary consideration these days.
     
  9. Cariad

    Cariad cymru am byth

    I assure you, I don't make anywhere near 40k my dear. Take into account the high standard of living here, classroom overcrowding, lack of basic essentials ie BOOKS! believe it or not, many teachers provide pencils, writing pads and other essentials, to their students out of their own pocket, and now the idiot major is making more cuts.

    That's a wide average there biker, a $30k (almost ) big difference between the low and high end of the scale. They're all doing the same job.
     
  10. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    I know that. ;) But does that still make it proper to short change the kids in their education by striking? Why not get it put into the contracts that the local school board MUST submit to binding arbitration?
     
  11. Cariad

    Cariad cymru am byth

    Make it a better work environment, and perhaps they wouldn't be so quick to strike.

    Teachers job doesn't stop in the classroom, you know that, hell I've bitched and moaned at you enough times about the amount of work I bring home. I don't get any preps. I hand out homework, it gets marked at home, in my time. I grade at home in my time, I go in on my days off to fix the damn pcs, so they're up and running when I do have classes so my kids have working pc's to use, because there isn't enough money available to hire techs to do the job.


    Incidentally, I teach in a catholic school, for those of you that don't know. But, teachers are teachers, and most of us are very dedicated, and want the best for the kids we teach because their performance reflects on us.
     
  12. tke711

    tke711 Oink Oink Staff Member

    Ah Cariad, there is the difference. You teach in a private school. It is my understanding the private school teachers have it much worse then public school teachers in most parts of the country. Yet, they are not the ones holding our kids hostage, the public school teachers are.

    Most, if not all of the threatened teachers strikes and other "actions" taken by teachers unions in this country are done by pubic school teachers. They are the ones giving all teachers a bad name.

    Here in Milwaukee, we have had various public school districts where teachers have stopped writing letters for students to get into college, refuse to help students one on one, and various other things to get what they want come contract time.

    To me, this is nothing short of extortion and should be called just that. They hold our kids hostage to get what they want. So much for actually wanting to teach and help our kids huh?!?!?

    A friend of ours is a union follower and 8th grade teacher. She was complaining and complaining about various things at her job, and how these things justified extortion or better pay.

    My questions to her were as follows:

    1. Were teachers salaries magically higher back when you chose to get your decree in education and chose to become a teacher? And now they've taken that away so you're upset? (answer: No....but....we should be paid more)

    2. Do you think that only teachers work past the 8-5 without extra pay? (answer: well.....but our union contract doesn't call for us to have to work more then that so we should be paid more.)

    3. You do remember that you only work 9 months of the year? (answer: Hey...we only get 11 weeks off during the summer) I particularly liked this one :)

    4. What do you pay for health, vision and dental insurance? (answer: $0). How much do you have to contribute to your pension? (answer: $0)

    Now, I'm not saying that Teachers don't deserve to be paid fairly, but when you factor in pension, benefits, and salary, the average annual compensation for a school teacher in the metro Milwaukee area, it's not a bad living. Sure, it's not as high as the CEO of Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance, or as high as the Head of R&D for Johnson Controls, but it's not a bad living none-the-less.
     
  13. ACat

    ACat Random

    Most of the time, it seems as though teachers, among other major unions, are wanting to go on strike after their contract has expired, when discussions have reached an impasse. As an individual, wouldn't you support this? Why should they be forced to work as slaves? In the recent MTA 'negotiations', the mayor was constantly speaking of the possibility of a strike as a 'gun pointed at NYC'...and that such a threat had no place at the negotiating table. What is New York's Taylor law if not a gun in the hands of the gummint?
     
  14. Cariad

    Cariad cymru am byth

    I don't have an education degree, I never planned on becoming a teacher, my degrees are tech degrees, electronic engineering, industrial measurement and control, and marine electronics.

    I teach because I enjoy teaching, I love my kids, I'm only part time and I don't have medical or dental plans.

    I understand my circumstances might be a tad different from other teachers in the public school system, but we all do the same thing.

    There are many things teachers are expected to do outside the working day. Meet with parents, grading, marking homework, writing references etc. Broken down at an hourly rate, the pay isn't that high.

    Teachers I know don't get 11 weeks off in the summer, they're at the school for over a week after children have left for summer vacation, and come back over a week early to prepare classrooms.

    It's not an entire do nothing vacation, lesson plans for the coming year have to be put together, which is a lot of work.

    I teach computer studies form kindergarten to 8th grade, so I have to prepare lessons for 9 different age groups for 9 months. I'm not given a package with detailed instructions and a script to follow, and neither does the person doing the same job in the public school system.

    I think the point of many teachers is, the public keep complaining of the system and dropping grades, everyone knows school funding isn't what it should be, yet money to the system keeps getting cut.
    With the increase of violence in schools, unruly children, no support from parents, combined with a curriculum always changing because the idiotic syllabus thought up by some moron in head office a few years ago isn't working, and now is being changed again. It's frustrating.

    Grrrr, I could go on and on and on, there are so many things I'm not happy about (being a parent a well), but I'll take the thread WAY off topic... sorry. Gong to eat an egg sandwich now.
     
  15. tke711

    tke711 Oink Oink Staff Member

    I think "to work as slaves" is a bit dramatic ACat. During the recent contract negotiations here in a Milwaukee suburb, it was reported that the average teachers compensation (salary and benefits added together), equaled over $60,000 a year.

    Hardly "slaves" if you ask me.

    And "no", I don't support strikes by teachers ever. Just as I don't support strikes by fireman and policemen.
     
  16. tke711

    tke711 Oink Oink Staff Member

    How is this any different then many, many other salaried positions? I don't have a single friend who is a salaried employee that only works 40 hours a week. We all work after hours, before hours, and on weekend occasionally. On some weeks if you broke down my hourly rate, I'm sure most people at McDonalds make more then I do. It's the job. If I don't like it, I can find something else to do.

    Let me also say that I'm not trying to be an ass or am unsympathetic to teachers. I just find the tactics of the teachers unions of late to be out of touch with reality and down right harmful to the very students they say they are there to educate.
     
  17. ACat

    ACat Random

    I stand by it. To be in a position, as public employees are in New York, of being liable for a penalty of twice one's salary for each day that one refuses to work without a contract is nothing less.
     
  18. RRedline

    RRedline Veteran MMember

    Please don't take offense to this, but your situation in a private school is completely irrelevant to the average public school teacher salaries in your state. New York's teachers are paid more than most other states'. In fact, I believe NY ranks somewhere around third or fouth in the nation. Pennsylvania ranks just behind NY state with an average salary of around $48,000 per year. I'm sorry, but NY and PA teachers will not get sympathy from me.

    Again, please don't take offense to this, but if money is important to you, then why teach at a Catholic school? I would LOVE to make a career out of sleeping in late and hanging out at the gym, but it doesn't pay very much. It's not fair to accept a job, knowing what the conditions are, then turn around and complain about it. That is pretty much what I think of teachers when they threaten to strike or complain about "low" salaries. In many states, public school teachers earn more money than accounts and civil engineers.
     
  19. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Rules should be changed where both parties MUST submit to binding arbitration prior to the expiration of the existing contract. Of course, the unions would hate that since the can't squeeze more money out of their member's salaries for their coffers.
     
  20. tke711

    tke711 Oink Oink Staff Member

    RREdline and anyone else that is interested, here is a report from the AFL-CIO(pdf) on Teacher Salary Trends. It's quite a long report, but there are some charts that shows salaries by states.
     

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