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Finally, a Politician That's Got a Pair

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Coot, Nov 26, 2002.

  1. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    I listened to an interview with Tom Tancredo (R) Colorado this evening; this guy pulls no punches and he's done his homework....at least on his hotbutton topic and mine...illegal aliens. As Bush wants to legalize the millions of illegals already in the country and do nothing to stem the hemmorhage out of Mexico, it was heartening to hear someone take up the gauntlet and challenge the administration.

    He came right out and said that it's going to be hard to drum up any opposition to this in Congress despite the latest Zogby poll that shows 71% of Americans want this problem returned to Mexico and 56% of Americans want the border secured. The democrats see the illegals as a future source of votes, Republicans like the cheap labor and the president sees it as a wedge to win more hispanic votes. Congress believes they can piss us off on this as its down on the list of issues for most Americans behind terrorism, the economy and education.

    He's apparently pissed off the administration with his vocal opposition enough that they're actively looking for a Republican to put up against him in the next primary...despite the fact that he's squarely behind the administration on every other issue.

    The real issue the administration is most at odds with Tancredo over is that he spilled the beans about the Mexican government's Office of Mexicans Abroad. It's a ministerial office presided over by one Juan Hernandez, a dual Mexican/U.S. citizen born in Texas. Mr. Hernandez has come out on the record stating that we aren't two countries, we're just one big region, and that Mexico has a strong desire to help more of their people attain dual citizenship and in the illegals getting legalized insofar as it preserves their ties to Mexico and it will give Mexico the power it needs to dictate American foreign policy.

    Damn, I wish there was a way to get this guy to run in 2004.
     
  2. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Wow Coot, thanks for the heads up!!

    I totally agree with you 100% and not sure how an illegal can become legal without doing anything LEGAL.

    Aren't we sending out the wrong kind of message when we pardon the people who broke the laws to get here?
     
  3. immortal one

    immortal one 501st Geronimo

    It is a serious issue for this nation. I see it as having two parts.

    One, the flow of illegals into this country, and two, that the Bush administration doesn't listen to what the reported majority of Americans would like to see done about this problem.
     
  4. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    Interesting... You don't suppose Dubya learned from Jeb that kissing hispanic ass gets you votes, do you? BTW - I didn't vote for him. I cannot STAND Jeb Bush and I don't like what he's done to the education system in our state one bit.
     
  5. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    From what I read it was every elected politician in the country that ignored the wishes of the populace. Interesting that you only saw Bush.
     
  6. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    Hard to say whether he learned it on his own in Texas, from his brother or whether they both learned it from the democrats. Florida's demographics are bit different than the rest of the country, as typically the hispanic voting block in Florida generally votes republican anyway.
     
  7. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    Well, one thing is for other politicians ignore the populace - it's quite another for the president to ignore it.

    Then again, all President's ignored it.
     
  8. Jedi Writer

    Jedi Writer Guest

    Ah, dual citizenship. A bad idea in my opinion and a topic you seldom hear discussed.

    As one example there were several hundred absentee ballots to be counted from Israel in the Florida 2000 presidential election. Yes, I said Israel. Seems there were these Israelis who had dual U.S. citizenship and who resided most of the time in Israel. As you recall here was the presidential election riding on a margin of a few hundred votes and we had a bunch of Israelis who would potentially decide who the next U.S. President was going to be. Just one example of that bad idea, dual citizenship.
     
  9. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    I'm sorry, I will have to see more reason that you provided for agreeing that dual citizenship is a bad thing. There could be a myriad of reasons why a person is in Israel for a while and needs or wants dual citizenship. As as a citizen of this country they should have the right to vote.
     
  10. Jedi Writer

    Jedi Writer Guest

    They lived and effectively permanently resided in Israel. Only returning to this country for brief periods to maintain their U.S. citizenship. That was why they had to vote by absentee ballot.

    I don't know how many other people in other countries are in the same situation. Maybe lots. Maybe none.

    As I said in my original post this is a topic that is seldom discussed, (dual citizenship) and the situation I posted on was just "one example" of why it was a bad idea. It was not meant to be the foundation or the whole story of why dual citizenship is not a good idea.

    Besides, are you saying it doesn't bother you and you see nothing inherently wrong with someone having dual citizenship and living permanently abroad in country where they are also a citizen but they can still vote in U.S. elections? I certainly do not want to put words into your mouth or take your post out of context. Something unfortunatley too many poster do in their replies, especially when they quote a portion of post. (I am not singling any one person out.)

    In the particular case I commented on it doesn't bother you that several hundred of what were effectively and functionally Israeli nationals permanently living in Israel could decide with their Florida absentee ballots who the next President of the United States could be?

    It was legal but was it a good idea?
     
  11. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    I said there were a myriad of reasons. If permament residence is desired in the foreign country I would hope we could terminate their rights to US citizenship. But how do you prove it. A student could easily want to go to school there for many years and not want the expense or not be able to afford the expense of coming home. And you could simply have people maintaining dual citizenship as a safety net. I doubt anybody is doing so with the hope of impacting elections for the benefit of a foreign power. And if we cannot determine who is legitimate and who is not legitimate I do not believe we can restrict their voting.

    Would it bother if a foreign group were deciding an election. yes. I just don't believe it is happening. You not only have to believe the nefarious motives but you have to believe they are a group voting as a bloc as a conspiracy and not because of common goals.
     
  12. Jedi Writer

    Jedi Writer Guest

    As far as proving it goes perhaps some new rules or statutes could be implimented solely to keep track. Even under the existing system when you enter and leave this country you have to use your passport and the dates of departure and arrival are recorded. I do not the precise rule for maintaining one's citizenship when residing abroad but I believe it is something like you must return to the United States at least once a year and remain for 30 days. That is just my impression from hearing the requirement long ago and I don't know how accurate it is. Admittedly at this point I am rather ignorant of the specifc rules. But you can see the practical application of it or some similar type of statute.

    As for dual citizenship being a safety net one has to ask what would be the motive for a safety net? Some motives would no doubt be good or neutral. But on the other hand the safety net could be exploited quite significantly for what everyone would agree would be criminal or harmful motives.

    As far as you not believing dual citizenship not effecting outcomes of elections how can you say that given the facts of the 2000 election? It is a fact that it all came down to Florida. It is a fact that approximately several hundered votes separted the two men and the eventual winner would be President. It is a fact that the approximately two hundred Israelis with dual citizenship voted by absentee ballot. And that was just from one country. How many other people were in similar situations in other countries and were eligible to vote in Florida? I don't know but I would take an educated guess and say at least several hundred. So given the figures you don't need a conspiracy to see that it is fact that statistically it is reasonable to conclude that in a situation such as that in Florida in 2000, what is <i>effectively</I> foreign nationals could and may have decided the election. An extreme example I admit but we now know from history and other recent elections a reality.

    Perhaps I am off base here but since no one discussed or even explores the concept it is hard to get a handle on it.

    I would hope somewhere sometime our country does look at the practice. Then based upon what the conclusions and facts are from such an examination the appropriate action, if any, be taken.

    Anyway that is just my two cents worth.
     
  13. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    I did not say it was impossible. But I don't believe we can prove anything one way or the other. If I were to speculate I would think the votes mentioned normally go democratic and therefore they may have caused the controversy by making it closer. You could even speculate far enough to say that Bush may have had a majority if we were to discount the possible cabal of votes from the other side. :)
     

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