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Final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by ethics, Nov 21, 2009.

  1. Kluge

    Kluge Observing your world for over 50 years

    The super-freakonomics book has been lauded elsewhere in the forum, I'd like to read it but I have spent money on other books I haven't read yet.

    In the joyous holiday spirit, I'd like to propose another bit of outside-the-box heresy: Suppose the earth's axis was, until relatively recently, where the magnetic poles are? A PBS/Nova hour suggests that a comet air-burst could have caused extinctions and been disguised if it hit ice instead of land, but suppose it hit the north pole at an angle and caused the earth's crust to tilt on top of the rotating liquid-like iron core, and possibly to depress the arctic to create a sea there. The depressing of the arctic could have caused the northern hemisphere continents to rise and so we have more land in the temperate zone here as opposed to south of the equator. Thoughts, anyone?
  2. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

  3. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    Here's an article by a local celebrity. It says a mouthfull about the whole topic, from whether any climate change is man made, to how the alarmists are acting about the entire thing. Feel free to slam him... But note his qualifications before you do.

    Particularly disturbing was the way the core IPCC scientists (the believers) marginalized the skeptics of the theory that man-made global warming is large and potentially catastrophic. The e-mails document that the attack on the skeptics was twofold. First, the believers gained control of the main climate-profession journals. This allowed them to block publication of papers written by the skeptics and prohibit unfriendly peer review of their own papers. Second, the skeptics were demonized through false labeling and false accusations.

    Climate alarmists would like you to believe the science has been settled and all respectable atmospheric scientists support their position. The believers also would like you to believe the skeptics are involved only because of the support of Big Oil and that they are few in number with minimal qualifications.
  4. Kluge

    Kluge Observing your world for over 50 years

    If we can trust their temperature data for the last decade, why can't we trust their temperature data for the rest of the data?

    Additionally, it seems at the moment Jupiter is in Capricorn, behind the sun, so we should be about a million miles closer to the surface of the sun than usual, that is about 1%, and it should show up in temperature data, no? But that cycle takes 12 years, and I expect it is a cosine curve with +1 (million) at 'now' 1-1-2010 so look at the last decade:
    And the average is_____-.137 million miles or about -.137 percent

    And all of your brilliant scientific thinkers on both sides of the issue have told you what about this?
    ... um... nothing?
  5. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    And the give Michael Mann, the one implicated in the conspiracy of CRU docs/emails, half a million from the Stimulus package:

    The National Center for Public Research reported:
    In the face of rising unemployment and record-breaking deficits, policy experts at the National Center for Public Policy Research are criticizing the Obama Administration for awarding a half million dollar grant from the economic stimulus package to Penn State Professor Michael Mann, a key figure in the Climategate controversy.

    Its outrageous that economic stimulus money is being used to support research conducted by Michael Mann at the very time hes under investigation by Penn State and is one of the key figures in the international Climategate scandal. Penn State should immediately return these funds to the U.S. Treasury, said Tom Borelli, Ph.D., director of the National Centers Free Enterprise Project.

    Professor Mann is currently under investigation by Penn State University because of activities related to a closed circle of climate scientists who appear to have been engaged in agenda-driven science. Emails and documents mysteriously released from the previously-prestigious Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia in the United Kingdom revealed discussions of manipulation and destruction of research data, as well as efforts to interfere with the peer review process to stifle opposing views. The motivation underlying these efforts appears to be a coordinated strategy to support the belief that mankinds activities are causing global warming.

    Its no wonder that Obamas stimulus plan is failing to produce jobs. Taxpayer dollars arent being used in the ways most likely to spur job creation. The stimulus was not sold to the public as a way to reward a loyalist in the climate change debate. Nor was the stimulus sold as a way to promote the Obama Administrations position on the global warming theory. This misuse of stimulus money illustrates why tax cuts are a better way to stimulate the economy than letting the government decide where to spend taxpayer dollars. As is often the case, political considerations corrupt the distribution of government funds, said Deneen Borelli, a fellow with the National Centers Project 21 black leadership network.

    Manns credentials as a climate change alarmist seems to fit the political criteria for stimulus funds sometimes known as Obama money, added Deneen Borelli.

    Mann is a central and controversial figure in climate change research. Manns so-called hockey stick graph depicting temperature changes over a 1000 year period was used as evidence in the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) 2001 report to conclude carbon dioxide from industrial activity is causing global warming. Mimicking the shape of a hockey stick, the graph showed a long period of stable temperatures (the shaft) followed by a rapid rise in temperatures (the blade) during the last hundred years.
    Critics of the hockey stick claim Mann manipulated data to eliminate the medieval warming period and the little ice age to eradicate the visual impact of natural global temperature variation. The emails from Climategate reveal that the inner circle of climate scientists were troubled by the methods Mann used to produce the graph.
  6. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    To be fair:

    Article refers to a Thomas J. Borelli Ph.D. who was"was the manager of Philip Morris Corporate Scientific Affairs Department circa 1990..." More on the National Center for Public Policy Research here.
    The actual grant is by way of the National Science Foundation (as the Funding Agency). The grant summary reads as such:
    To combine paleoclimate and instrumental observations with a new Earth system Model of Intermediate Complexity (EMIC) to improve constraints on key climate parameters including those governing dynamical and potentially abrupt responses to forcing. We will focus on dynamical mechanisms associated with the El Nino/Southern Oscillation (ENSO) and the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC). We will adopt an existing EMIC (“LOVECLIM”) as a starting point. Using ‘anomaly coupling’ in the tropical Pacific, a new version of LOVECLIM is capable of simulating ENSO quite realistically. ENSO teleconnection patterns will be corrected statistically to provide more reliable assessments of extratropical expressions of ENSO such as changes in western United States precipitation/drought. The project will provide (i) an improved representation of ENSO in an Earth system model of intermediate complexity, (ii) refined estimates of key climate parameters, and (iii) improved projections of potential changes in AMOC and ENSO (and associated drought impacts) in response to anthropogenic forcing. The project will provide a general methodological framework that can be exploited by the larger climate research community as improved proxy climate data become available, and/or as computational resources become available for employing more elaborate climate models in the required large ensemble runs.
    Other grants going to Penn State University can be found here.

    The grant evolved from the NSF Paleoclimate Program which can be found here. An abstract of the award can be found at the NSF site: Award Abstract #0902133.
    Michael Mann is listed as the Principal Investigator and Klaus Keller as Co-Principal Investigator.
  7. dsl987

    dsl987 Member

  8. Techie2000

    Techie2000 The crowd would sing:

    All I have left to say is for having placed the "final nail" in the coffin a couple months ago, you are all are still very concerned with trying to prove it isn't real...:)
  9. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    Nobody is trying to prove it isn't real. It's not for us to disprove anything. It's for science to prove it IS real.

    Want me on board? Prove it to me. Stop trying to bullshit me. All people are doing here is pointing out where "scientists" are bullshitting us.

    But I have said this before.

    Also, while it may seem like we're "still trying to prove", the bullshit material just keeps piling in. I mean, it's not like WE are out there hacking into IPCC. All that people here are doing is posting it.
  10. Techie2000

    Techie2000 The crowd would sing:

    Then why do you feel obligated to keep posting and insisting on it?

    I don't care if you're onboard or not, but I'm just saying for people so convinced that you're so right and secure in your positions, you spend an awful lot of time trying to reassure each other.
  11. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    Zoomed right over your head.

    Did you miss the part where we keep posting because the material keeps coming in?

    Most of us here believe there may be something to it, may not. We're on the fence. We're NOT secure in our positions. We're not trying to prove it's not real.

    We're just not drinking Kool-aid that's placed in front of us. And every time we see Kool-aid being placed in front of us, we're pointing it out.

    It's not AGW that we're against. It's lies that we're against.
  12. Techie2000

    Techie2000 The crowd would sing:

    I didn't miss a thing. I just thought it pertinent to observe that in spite of all the attention given to "climategate" and the prediction in the topic title that it would bring some kind of finality, it looks like time has shown that "climategate" didn't have the impact certain people were hoping it would.

    Additionally you're not having the kool-aid placed in front of you. You're actively searching it out and then fighting it.
  13. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    It's really not even actively looking for it. It's coming out from people who were questioning it before and are now discussing it. That's what we are doing it here. As for MY title of the thread, let's just say that it's a final nail in the coffin of UNQUESTIONED Global Warming theory that is being "caused by man".
  14. Techie2000

    Techie2000 The crowd would sing:

    I just haven't seen a shift at all. People here were generally not believers in Global Climate Change and nobody has changed that position.

    CNN/NYTimes, etc. all seem to still be running the same lines and Al Gore is still doing his thing. Congress still seems to be running mostly the same line, and the White House as well.

    Seems like this event went from a "smoking gun" to barely a footnote.
  15. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Hold on there. People did not believe that GW was MAN Made (title of the thread) not that there was a climate change--which would include global cooling.

    The latest on Climategate is that there's an investigation going and many are waiting on that. See my other thread on Himalayan clusterfuck that I've posted today in another thread, plenty of sources for ya.
  16. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    I think the impact behind Climategate has just begun. I think the fiasco that was Copenhagen is just the start, and I think every time that someone spouts an AGW warning, it will be critiqued and actually subjected to fair peer review, as they should be, and very unlike previous warnings.

    **Of course** Congress and POTUS are running the same line. If you've invested years and years spouting one line and billions of taxpayer dollars supporting that line, and all of a sudden that may not be true, what else can the politicians do? Admit maybe they were wrong? I have just one thing to say to that notion...


    Oh wait, here's more -

  17. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    Oh, and as more and more people realize that maybe they were duped by the leftist politicians who were Chicken Little types, like Al Gore, most of Congress, Obama, the backlash will be beyond severe. Dumping tax dollars into hoaxes while the economy has gone to crap is suicide.
  18. Techie2000

    Techie2000 The crowd would sing:

    I think whatever you decide to call it (GCC or GW) the majority of membership from the beginning did not agree that it was man made. At a minimum let's say that if Obama posted something here saying he believed GCC was caused by man and we need to do things to fight it he would not be greeted with a rousing beat of hail to the chief.

    Not really sure what the story with the investigation is. But the e-mails and evidence are already out there what more could they possibly come up with? And even if they came up with a little more, I think people's positions are so strongly staked out it just won't do anything.

    Anyways I think the average voter is so busy thinking about the economy and healthcare reform they're not even paying attention to GCC anymore...
  19. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    You're right. I'd say "Make them prove it to our satisfaction, before you commit billions of our dollars." But that's not what Obama is doing, is he? He's taking bad science and running with it like it's fact. Just like the rest of the alarmist lemmings. Yeah, I object to it.

    Just like I have always objected to government waste.

    Any voter with his head out of his ass realizes that the two are interchanged. What kind of jobs package is Obama pushing, again? Green jobs? Isn't that like... AGW friendly jobs? How much money are we sending down that disposal? And the more we blow on bullshit, the less we have for things like healthcare? Which is my objection to healthcare, since we just can't afford it?
  20. Techie2000

    Techie2000 The crowd would sing:

    You know Copz, "Green jobs" are part of making America energy independent. It's not just about GCC and I think you're feigning disagreement here because its last the straw you've found you can grab for.

    The CBO says we can afford HCR. The latest HCR plan doesn't increase the deficit. Unless of course you want to tell me that the CBO isn't a reliable source...

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