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Federal judge declares D.C. ban on carrying handguns in public unconstitutional

Discussion in 'Society and Culture' started by ethics, Jul 28, 2014.

  1. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

  2. Sir Joseph

    Sir Joseph Registered User

    Because something did change. As it stands now, D.C. is constitutional carry because its laws were thrown out. The Judge quoted several court decisions, not just heller.
     
  3. SixofNine

    SixofNine Jedi Sage Staff Member

    I think the big deal is that the Heller ruling only allowed D.C. residents to keep handguns in their homes. This new ruling declares prohibitions against open carry as unconstitutional.
     
  4. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    The gun control advocates are trying every possible angle to prevent personal carry. They're getting their asses handed to them, but they are persistent.

    Chicago tried a bunch of measures when their laws were shot down. They tried taxing ammo through the moon, they tried to severely restrict gun stores, they tried anything they could do to kill the gun industry short of actually restricting the gun licensing. Every time they tried something like that, they were defeated.

    The good news is this... That every decision made like this puts the skids to another stupid restriction tactic, for good. The left has GOT to be feeling the noose tightening. They're losing their battle badly. That damned old Constitution getting in the way.
     
  5. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Copz, let me ask you this then, if you are pro-gun carry, wouldn't that pose a problem for the police if more people had guns? For example, that punk on the transit platform? Would love to hear your point (and it would be a counter point to the people like Bloomberg and DeBlasio).
     
  6. cmhbob

    cmhbob Did...did I do that? Staff Member

    The people who are a threat to cops already carry, and will carry, no matter the laws.
     
  7. MemphisMark

    MemphisMark Old School Conservative

    It certainly makes his job a lot harder. Let's say a citizen and a scumbag get into it, and they both draw and start firing. If Copz happens along half-way through, how does he tell who is the attacker and the defender? The attacker could be the guy in the suit, while the good guy is in the Metallica t-shirt.

    If I'm actively defending, and the Police tells us to both drop, I don't know if I'm going to comply fast enough for the Police. I will want the scumbag to stop before I do...
     
  8. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    99% of the time something like this happens, I'm there to mop up.

    Mark, I do not identify targets by Metallica t-shirts. When you roll up on a scene like this, making a speed assessment is actually easier than one might think. The bad guy is going to see me as a threat and is going to act accordingly, regardless of his dress.

    And honestly, how often does that happen, vs. how often someone simply defends himself or herself from an aggressor? Any risks are radically outweighed by the benefits; to even have this "what if" discussion is frivolous.

    I'm pro gun carry because I trust you, Leon. And I trust Bob. And I trust Mark, and Brian, and Tom, and Allene, and all of you good citizens. I trust you because you are good people, and I think you know when your life is threatened. I trust you to defend yourself. I have faith in you. I see the beauty of our founding fathers faith in you as well.

    There are three things I do NOT trust.

    I do not trust the criminal element.
    I do not trust my ability to be omnipresent.
    I do not trust my government to remain benign in the face of a disarmed populace.

    That is why I support the citizen's right to carry, and the 2nd Amendment in its absolutely pure form, "shall not be infringed."
     
    ShinyTop, Allene and ethics like this.
  9. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    Oh, and to answer your question about isn't it a police problem if people have more guns.

    Texans have guns. Lots and lots of guns. I stop people weekly who hand me a concealed carry license along with their driver's license. I don't even blink. It's part of our culture, who we are as a people.

    Houston crime rate is low compared to the disarmed cities.
     
  10. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Thanks, let me do a follow up.

    CAN one compare Texas populace and culture and even ideology vs. the one in NYS? Sure, there are plenty comparable values -- especially the farther you go away from NYC, but most of the populace is INSIDE the NYC. SO while I know there are hoods in Texas, are they on the same level? Or are people are people are people? Cesspool of crap at its nucleus.

    Reason I am following up now is actually more for me. The older I get the more cynical I get about humans in general. I am not even in law enforcement and never were but I see daily shit every.single.day from people. Petty shit, but shit nevertheless.

    And thanks for being pro-gun. I think without a doubt the 2nd most important right we have, behind freedom of speech.
     
  11. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    Valid question, but I think the problem in NYS isn't because one area has better people who won't do stupid shit, or one area has people more able to handle firearms over the other.

    The only problem is that your region has been programmed to think of firearms as some mystical, magical threshold that "ooo ahhh only police and military, oh YOU have a gun oooo ahhhh don't touch ooo but you don't hunt why do you have it it's scary ooooo ahhh". I mean, this is how people in your region views firearms. And I'm not really being overly dramatic in the above, in some cases it's worse than that.

    But we don't have that kind of stigma attached to a firearm. For us it's just "eh, okay whatever."

    When I get cynical about stupid people, like the screaming bitch in your accident video, I try to remember people like you guys, my parents, some of our good friends, and just think that I'd honestly prefer that they are armed against the stupid people. Not that you'd have to use it against the screaming bitch, but you know, she is just a razor's edge away from getting a weapon of opportunity, jumping in her car and trying to ram you and your car... Something really stupid like that, and who knows... I'd prefer with a world of stupid people like that, that the good people have an equalizer.
     
    ethics likes this.
  12. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    You're correct, Copz...folks here who have guns are treated like pariahs. We have to keep quiet about it to avoid humiliation and outright aggression. The truth of the matter is, I feel like a target every time I'm in NYC--not when I'm at the Fed, since there are tons of security to keep aggressors out, but most certainly on the way in and out, I'm one of the defanged. I'm old enough to avoid most confrontations but still young enough to mess up someone if they want to try and have their way with me, but that doesn't replace the option of being able to pull out my Shield in the event someone wants to go for broke. This is one of the reasons I only go into the office two days out of five.

    But being a wolf among sheep has its benefits. I had to tell my neighbor across the street to keep an eye on his kids, because they keep coming into my house--they're 3 and 5, and they're just looking for things to do. It's poor parenting on his part, of course, but he didn't properly identify the urgency of the situation (his small boys being so unsupervised that they ACTUALLY GO INTO OTHER PEOPLE'S HOMES WITH PERMISSION) until I mentioned I have guns in the place. Guns that are loaded, but also locked up and only I can get to them. But it certainly did the trick, now they can't even come into my driveway. :)
     
    Copzilla likes this.
  13. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Turned in to a great thread. :)

    I think this is the core of my anxiety, SM nails it. Yes, I am a good person, yes I would NOT use my firearm for anything nefarious, I actually doubt I would use it at any point in my life (I think) BUT to have it with me (vs. just having permission to have it at home) is a huge anxiety point for me. I don't feel safe, ever. I am surrounded by idiots on the commute, on the streets, even going to grab some lunch. I don't mean this as hyperbole, there are many flash points in which wannabe Alpha males -- defanged by their lives and wives -- have a tendency to make a mistake to test everything and everyone with their overt passive aggressiveness. Everywhere.
     
  14. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    Good thread.
     
  15. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    Great post 'Zilla! :) Especially considering I'm wearing a Metallica T-shirt right now ! :)
     
    Copzilla likes this.
  16. Sir Joseph

    Sir Joseph Registered User

    Just to add, were I scene and I was shooting a perp and a cop shows up, my gun would instantly go on the ground, the perp's gun would still be pointing at me or the cop. So the police would still have a way of identifying a bad guy vs. good guy.
    Also, even in this thread you see perception problems. Texas is not all guns galore. My state is more gun "friendly" than Texas and you read on the forums all the time about NJ visitors who can't believe that people are walking around with a gun. I was speaking with someone and was telling them how I got my gun and my license and they couldn't believe it. Of course, I live near Philthy, so it's still not the gun oasis, but if you go further out west to the center of the state, open carry is common and the world doesn't end.
    As for noticing, nobody ever notices a gun. No matter how much I try to get someone to notice (just to see their reaction or to see if the cop will notice) they don't. What they do notice is the criminal walking into the store with a gun and using it.
     
  17. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    The entire purpose of concealed carry is to NOT show it off or get noticed. If you're doing this for the attention, just leave the gun at home.
     
  18. Sir Joseph

    Sir Joseph Registered User

    I know that, and printing is OK in PA, but I am not doing it all the time. It was more the first few times I was carrying I was playing around trying to see if I could notice. (Which is one of the things people mention to first time CC'ers not to do) And then instinctively, when I pass a cop I check to see what can be seen or not, not that I lift up my shirt or play with the gun. I probably wrote that all wrong, but I guess I'm saying nobody notices a good guy with a gun.
    Now that I'm comfortable with CC and I have a great holster, I myself hardly notice I'm carrying.
     
  19. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    I bet that was quite the dinnertime topic for your neighbor for weeks.

    "We have a psycho neighbor next door, honey!!!"

    What I find very disconcerting is how badly the police there perpetuate that mystical thought process. A GUN!!! NO YOU DON'T NEED ONE!!! ZOMG!!!

    And if I hear another Chief of Police talk about hunting rifles being okay, but so and so not needing a gun because they don't hunt, I'm going to lose my ever loving mind. The 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting, and a professional in the law business damn well should know that.

    I even hear of cops from out of state getting the business in northern states. If I ever visit, I better not get any shit, I will give it right back.
     
  20. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    I prefer to not bring up any discussion of guns with my neighbors. It's going to say my business until such time as I may be required to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights.
     

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