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Duke Lacrosse case

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by cmhbob, Apr 23, 2006.

  1. cmhbob

    cmhbob Did...did I do that? Staff Member

    Here's a Google News summary if you haven't been following things.

    Here's what I've gotten so far, based on various news reports:
    • Team members decide to have a party; team captain hires 2 strippers using an assumed name
    • Strippers show up; one is possibly intoxicated and may have bruises and contusions when she arrives
    • Dancers do their thing for a while, but stop at some point, gather their things, and leave
    • Dancers are apologized to and invited back into the house; they enter
    • One of the dancers is allegedly pulled into a bathroom and assaulted by three white males. She loses false fingernails during the attack, and they are later found in the bathroom.
    • At some point right about this time, there's a 911 call made by a female alleging that someone has yelled a racial slur towards her and a friend.
    • The victim is later found at a grocery store in the other dancer's car; victim reports the rape to responding officers. SHe is taken to the hospital where a rape kit is done, and that exam provides evidence that a sex assault has occurred.
    • DNA testing is done on the 46 white members of the team. NO DNA evidence matches the team members DNA!
    This article claims the false fingernails came off as the victim scratched at the guy who was choking her.

    The second dancer has changed her story almost 180 degrees, from "I don't think anything happened," to "I'm sure something happened, but I'm not sure what." At some point she's spoken with a major PR firm, and said some damning things in an email.

    At the moment, 2 team members have been indicted, arrested, and bonded out. The season has been canceled, and the coach has been fired. The prosecutor (who's up for reelection in a couple of weeks) is looking to charge a third team member soon.

    I'm not convinced she was raped, or at least I don't think she was raped by team members. The lack of DNA matches against any of the 46 white team members is very telling to me. Some reports have suggested that it's not uncommon for a sex assaults to leave no DNA, but given that she was reported to have been raped and sodomized, there should have been some DNA from one of her three attackers. Also, were any of the team members checked for injuries to their arms, from her defensive attacks? Was any DNA recovered from the fingernails that were left at the scene?

    There's too many questions here at the moment. I think these guys are getting crucified in the media for a number of reasons, like the race card (black single mom as victim, rich white boys as attackers), the "men are bad" card, and the rich versus poor card (Duke tuition is higher than the average per capita wage in Durham).
  2. Steelermatt90

    Steelermatt90 Registered User

    i have only heard that there were 2 players charged and the lawyer that is codefending(i think) both of them said that they would not try to bargain their way out of this because they claim they are innocent.
  3. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    This has been a strange story from the beginning. The girl picked two of the team out from a line up and they are the ones charged. Now there are questions about the line up.

    One very interesting aspect is the Reverend Jesse Jackson's interest in the case. The good reverend has said the Rainbow Coalition will pay for the woman's education whether or not a rape occurred. You may read about it here: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191902,00.html
  4. joseftu

    joseftu ORIGINAL Pomp-Dumpster

    It's a very complicated case, and it's really hard to know the facts. There is definite corroboration, though, of the racial slurs, and I don't know of anyone who would doubt that boys who hire strippers might treat them pretty badly.

    None of that confirms rape, of course--and they're innocent until proven guilty (nobody's been crucified, they're represented by very high-priced and talented lawyers, and they have every right to a fair trial, which I'm sure they'll get).

    I wonder, though, if there isn't a larger cultural story we could be talking about--even assuming that there was absolutely no rape, no sexual assault of any kind, maybe this is a good opportunity to talk about the culture of fraternities and athletes at elite colleges.

    The idea that it's a good thing, a "boys will be boys" thing, for college students to get as drunk as possible, have parties with strippers, yell racial slurs...is that an idea that still has currency? Is that an idea that's still supported (or supportable) in 21st century America?


    What are we teaching our boys, athletes, at an elite college with a distinguished academic reputation, that would make this kind of "joke" (again, even assuming that there was no rape) something that would be tolerated or accepted?
  5. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    A good subject, Joe, for another thread. When it is split off I have some thoughts on the subject.
  6. joseftu

    joseftu ORIGINAL Pomp-Dumpster

    OK. I'm willing to have it split (sorry to highjack your thread, Bob).
  7. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    Columnist Kathleen Parker does a very good job of serving up a heaping dish of STFU for Jackson (who lost the right to be called "Reverend" by me a very, very long time ago).
  8. cmhbob

    cmhbob Did...did I do that? Staff Member

    No sweat, Joe. That's an excellent idea for a new thread/split, and I'd weigh in on that one as well. I'd suggest we not limit it to elite schools though. I think you'll find those attitudes crosss all sorts of boundaries.
  9. cmhbob

    cmhbob Did...did I do that? Staff Member

    You mean like the fact that it was a photo lineup of only 46 white males who were on the lacrosse team, and there were no other photos in the lineup? No prejudice there, nosirree. :rolleyes: A first-year law student should be able to get the lineup thrown out.

    Ummm... I would, speaking as one who has "hired" strippers at a strip club. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't think it's fair to assume that just because someone's hired a stripper, that they'll treat the dancer badly. That's right along with the "boys will be boys" attitude.
  10. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    My only comment on this whole issue was summarized by an ESPN writer (of all people). When he said that this whole case is a perfect stereotypical case that the media and people love. White boys raping black girl, racism, privileged kids, money vs. no money... It has everything.

    So regardless whether these boys did it or not, they were guilty from the start in many eyes.
  11. SixofNine

    SixofNine Jedi Sage Staff Member

    That and the fact that Duke is a school that many non-blue devils love to hate.
  12. joseftu

    joseftu ORIGINAL Pomp-Dumpster

    Very good point. I believe I was guilty of an overgeneralization. I understand that there are many kinds of strippers, many kinds of situations, and many kinds of clients of strippers. I was thinking of a pretty specific kind of situation--a bunch of boys (well, 18-21 year-olds...they're not children, certainly, but they're still something that's not quite the same as adults), plenty of alcohol, a private house. Add in the race issue (which I do think is relevant), and I don't think that polite or humane appreciation of her beauty and eroticism is going to be the general attitude.

    (And yes, I've been to strip clubs as an adult--and yes, I've been a 19-year-old...albeit never with the kind of sense of privilege and aggression and homosocial bonding that goes on among athletes, fraternity brothers, and so on).
  13. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Explains my own feelings in a nut shell.
  14. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

  15. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

  16. cmhbob

    cmhbob Did...did I do that? Staff Member

    A second DNA test against the team DNA samples has come back with no conclusive match to any team member.

    The tests showed genetic material from a single male "known to the Durham police department," but that material did not match any players.

    You could say this is kind of big news in the case. 2 tests both show no conclusive match. What other evidence could Nifong have?

    And aside from anything else, it's pointed out here that the team members were the ones who coughed up the fingernails. Would you do that to a team brother?

  17. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Like I said, this looks pretty bad for the accuser.
  18. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    This makes no sense.

    3rd guy indicted. Thus far, I haven't seen anything for the evidence. As a matter of fact, I've seen DNA tests being shut down.
  19. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, either, especially the importance usually conferred on DNA samples during the evidentiary process.

  20. Copzilla

    Copzilla dangerous animal Staff Member

    The whole thing smacks of politics to me. I know that just because it is a prostitute or a dancer doesn't mean they weren't raped, but this whole thing just smells bad.

    The DA is pushing for political office, I have heard. I don't see much evidence. Fingernails aren't enough, I'm afraid. And dancers aren't exactly perfectly credible. The evidence must be weighted in their favor to lend credibility, and I don't see it.

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