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Domestic Violence Policy

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by ethics, Nov 17, 2002.

  1. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    It would seem, they argue, that we are ignoring human nature, putting principle above the lives involved and creating an unproductive antagonism between the system and some victims. Many battered women, for instance, don't want their men arrested or put away. The questioners, who include academics, crime experts, black feminists and social workers, are wondering aloud if we have come to rely too much on the law to solve a problem that defies easy solutions.

    The New York Times Magazine offers <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/17/magazine/17VIOLENCE.html">a thought-provoking essay</a> on the vexing issue of domestic violence.

    Once ignored by the law, the feminist movement has successfully pushed for legislation to protect battered women and send the batterers to jail. However, evidence is mounting that this cure has brought with it its own problems.

    By reducing the parties involved in violent relationships to caricatures, the feminist-driven antiviolence programmes have ignored the complex emotional and material realities of these relationships, and in the process have very often brought about results which benefit neither the women nor the men. (The essay bizarrely ignores the fact that very often men often end up victims of spousal abuse too.)

    Thankfully, experts are in the process of experimenting with ways to resolve violent relationships which do benefit all the parties concerned.
  2. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    Domestic violence is an issue that is presenting an increasing number of problems here also. All members of the household involved suffer to a greater or lesser extent.
    I am unfortunately unable to open the link ethics so haven't read the essay you refer to.
  3. -Ken

    -Ken Guest

    As I have said many times here, the issue is violence
    against people.

    It is not men beating up women (this is a particularly
    disgraceful variety) or adults beating children (another
    unexplainable behavior) but violence used by one human
    being against another.

    I am amazed anyone could condone the use of violence,
  4. RRedline

    RRedline Veteran MMember

    If somebody walked up and threw a brick threw the windshield of my car, I will most likely respond with violence. Do you condone it in that instance?

    By the way, I have to agree that too many women's lib leaders couldn't care less about men. I could post an endless rant on why I despise NOW, but I'll save my energy.
  5. mikeky

    mikeky Member

    It's hard for me to understand under what possible circumstances it would be ok for a man to hit his wife/girlfriend (or vice versa).

    Several of the women indicated it was basically their business what happened in their home in terms of abuse. I might agree, except what about children in the home? Many abusers indicated they were products of abusive home environments, so while it may be fine for them to say they will accept the abuse, when children are involved, the consequence is often another generation that views abuse as ok. In addition, what about the current victum's obligation to the next victum that gets into a relationship with the same abuser? When they've finally had enough and do get out, do they want the next victum going through what they did?

    It may be a financial/emotional burden and hardship for the abuser to be punished, but sometimes doing the hard, right thing is still the right thing.
  6. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Mike, as you, I do not think this issue is so simple to solve. NYT Magazine indicated new methods of dealing with domestic violence--be it physical or psychological--and I hope it carries far in a more positive direction.

    Till this day, I am proud to say, that I've never ever raised my hand or my voice on any partner I've had and have. I never felt the need, nor indication in my mind that it would be something positive. I will also say that seeing a woman get hit is probably one of the most heart-wrenching things I can see and once almost went to jail for beating the crap out of some guy on a street who was busy banging his girlfriend's head in to his car's hood.

    Ironically, it was the girl that filed charges against me.
  7. mikeky

    mikeky Member

    Well, I'm sure jail wouldn't have been fun, but I admire that you got involved.
  8. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    I actually knew a guy who was violently inclined toward his gf, who was also a friend of mine. I was significantly motivated to get involved, as was my younger brother, who is much taller and bigger than I am (not to forget that, while I'm a member of the Cueball Brigade, my bro has more hair than a yeti). But the girl pleaded with us not to do so, and against our better judgment, we did not.

    He killed her.

    Imagine how we felt. :)

  9. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    How SHOULD you feel though? She asked you not to, what else can you do?

    Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
  10. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    Most places offer women's shelters for female victims of domestic violence; a few offer such shelters for men.

    A small number cities at the forefront of this problem are now offering shelters for the pets of victims of domestic abuse.

    It's relatively easy for a spouse to find sanctuary. Children are included, typically. Researchers have found, though, that many (mostly women) spouses won't leave the house because of fear that their husband will kill the dog/cat/hamster, etc. in retaliation.

    Since women's shelters don't accept pets, and the humane society can only take them for a couple of days, if at all, a solution is needed for those at-risk pets in homes where domestic violence occurs.

    Where such "pet shelters" are available, and women know they are available, researchers have found discovered that women are far more likely to leave the abusive situation and file charges.

    Small things contribute toward large solutions.
  11. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    The button pushing that takes place in a marriage can be unbelievable. I spent 4 years as a volunteer counselor on a crisis line in Birmingham, AL. Wives push buttons they know will result in violence and husbands willingly comply. Ignorance on both sides but you have to draw the line at violence. Unfortunately some studies I have seen link this behavior, on both sides, to what they learned as they grew up. It will not disappear overnight but we have to stay on course.
  12. Advocat

    Advocat Viral Memes a Speciality Staff Member

    For those interested, this is <b>the</b> study/analysis quite frequently (mis)quoted by both sides of the issue, on Intimate Partner Violence. Source: US DOJ Bureau of Justice Statistics:

    It includes statistics on abuse of males by their female partners.
  13. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    He beat her to death with a baseball bat. My brother and I could have prevented that. :)

  14. RRedline

    RRedline Veteran MMember

    I never even thought of the situation you described. I guess what I have a hard time understanding is why anyone would choose to spend their lives with someone who they feel might harm a pet in retaliation. The moment that thought entered my mind would be the same moment I started packing my bags.

    The problem I see is people are content to be emotionally and physically abused. How do people develop such a low self-worth?

    And ethics is right: You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. There are two women in my neighborhood who are in abusive relationships, and sometimes I am witness to it when I am outside washing my car, mowing the lawn, etc. I stopped getting involved because neither will press charges, and they are both still in the relationships. I told one of them just a few weeks ago that unless it is happening on my property, even if he is beating the living shit out of her, I will not stop him. I can't help someone who won't help herself.
  15. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Great stuff, thanks Advocat!
  16. Domh

    Domh Full Member

    oof - this ones real close to home for me so im going to have to remain as chill as i can here.

    there is no such thing as a 'domestic violence policy' in this country. the situation in most other countries is even worse.

    from a review of the statistics, for all intents and purposes it may as well be legal for a man to pummel his wife and children.

    the very term itself - 'domestic violence' is a misnomer, much like the term 'hate-crime' - unjustified physical violence against another human being is criminal behavior - period. beating your wife and children is criminal behavior - period.

    anybody who has ever tried to get a 'restraining order' as a means of protection from a violent or potentially violent individual understands the futility of the justice system in america better than most. again, from a review of the statistics, those who beg for and need police protection do not always get it, and when they do it often lacks any real effectiveness.

    this entire mess of an issue has roots going back to 5000+ BC, when some boys called kurgans finally made it over the ural mountains into europe, where they found a very long standing peaceful agrarian society, and commenced to beat the crap out of it.

    the effect of those events is a ripple in a pond that over time has become a tsunami. if you are interested in more about this, it is a subject about which i have done a great deal of study and will gladly discuss. IM me.

    steve - i cant imagine how you managed to deal with the guilt you felt.

    for the rest of you, i can only beg you from the bottom of my heart - when you hear your neighbors really going at it - call 911. more times than youd imagine, its not 'just another fight'.

    when you see it first hand, INTERVENE. do whatever you can. call 911 - make a scene, get the attention of everybody around you and make a difference.

    america is becoming a nation of head-turners, ignoring the plight of those within arms reach and frankly, its fucking disgusting.

    if i can tell some drunk asshole twice, no - three times my size to get the fuck off my lawn and manage to pull his bawling beaten girlfriend inside to safety, then you can too.
  17. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Powerful post, Domhain. Well said.
  18. BigDeputyDog

    BigDeputyDog Straight Shootin Admin Staff Member

    I won't cite any studies, quote any articles, or regurgitate any babblings of a psychoanalyst... I will speak from experience (something that can't be denied or discounted)...

    Domestic violence calls are the number one hated calls that a police officer receives... I have pulled a pissy drunk husband off of his wife (who he was beating with a ball-peen hammer) and carted him off to jail... Before the ink was dry on the booking forms, the wife had been released from the hospital (refused treatment) and was down trying to bail him out... I have taken a medical run where a wife had shot her husband in the left lung because she was angry at him... He refused to press charges... 11 months later I was back at the same address... she had shot him in the right lung... I have been attacked by the battered spouse because I was taking the battering spouse to jail... I have had more than one fellow officer/friend slain because they were dispatched to a domestic situation...

    Spouse upon spouse violence is a no win situation... for the participants, the children, the police, the prosecutors, for anyone... There are no winners... Only losers...

  19. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    BDD, I also heard that the reason Cops hate these calls is because this is where the likelyhood of getting shot is all time high, highest?
  20. BigDeputyDog

    BigDeputyDog Straight Shootin Admin Staff Member

    Ethics, I can't seem to find the information I'm looking for on the web...

    If memory serves me correctly (and don't hold me to it, I'm getting old!!) I believe the incidence of physical assault on a police officer during investigation of a domestic disturbance is one of the highest catagories... I'm not so sure about shootings...

    I do know that most of the officers I've worked with over the years are on a higher level of alert (due to a perceived threat) responding to a domestic abuse call than most other types of incidents (hold-up in progress and shots fired runs are in a class by themselves)...

    I do know from personal experience that, out of the tens of thousands of runs I have responded to during my career, that I have been physically assaulted more often during a domestic than any other type of run...

    Information on officer deaths can be found on many websites... a couple are:


    The Department of Justice is also a good place to find information (if you have time to wade through the many documents...

    Perhaps one of my Badged Brothers can step forward and assist this Old Timer... :)


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