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Do These People Have Real Jobs?

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by FrankF, Jan 18, 2003.

  1. FrankF

    FrankF #55170-054

    I read today that thousands of peace acivists are protesting a potential war with Iraq... http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/18/sproject.irq.us.protests/index.html

    Over the years, I have seen many protests against this war or that. I have seen protests by supporters of PETA, Greenpeace, anti Vieques bombing, Elian Gonzales, Gary Graham, the Million Man March, tree huggers, ad nauseum...

    And I wonder...do these people have real jobs? Or are they just professional protestors who protest anything that is in the news at the moment? Do they even know what they are protesting or why?

    Reminds me of the Vietnam war protests when I was in junior high. Most of the kids who got kicked out of school didn't know why they wore black arm bands or peace symbols... they did it because their friends did. Heck, most didn't even know what the war was about... couldn't find Vietnam on a map... and didn't even know anyone (or KNOW OF anyone) in the armed services.

    And, reminds me of my high school in 1974. The school's basketball coach was being fired. One day, 1500 of the 2000+ students walked out at precisely 10:00 am in protest.

    I doubt that most students gave a shit about high school basketball, or even knew the coach's name.

    But an unknown group of students decided that we must have a walkout... so 1500 mindless sheep followed their lead.
  2. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    I hope everyone knows what and how I feel about protestors in general.
  3. midranger4

    midranger4 Banned

    I don't know Ethics, care to share?
  4. saber11

    saber11 Veteran Member

    Well when I worked in the news business I don't know if it's like this everywhere, but I suspect it is.

    In one city there was a group called "Affiliated protest league" They would "recruit" pay protesters $10 a day to protest whatever the cause of the hour was. They would go to the homeless shelters, and the college campus to find recruits. They purchased signs and handed them out, and they basically told the people what to say and anything beyond that who the protest contact was.

    Sometimes it was funny seeing the same protesters protesting anti-abortion and the next day seem them protesting for womens rights, simply because it meant $10 in their pockets and a hot meal that night.
  5. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    I encountered some protestors today - standing on the entry ramp for I-4 in downtown Orlando.... Had huge signs, saying HONK FOR PEACE.

    My mom reached over and tried to honk for me, and I pushed her hand away. That made for an interesting conversation as to why I refuse to honk for peace.
  6. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

  7. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    Good for you Misu. Not for refusing to honk for peace, but for sticking to your guns when your mom disagreed.

    Since the Sixties people are much more distrustful of their government. Everything must be questioned. That's a good thing. I like to question the motives of the governmant as well.

    In this case my answer disagrees with the protestors (and usually does). But it's OK if they feel the world will end unless their point of view is heard, no matter the cause. Problem is, peope will make up their own minds and could care less how many people are marching around.
  8. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    Actually, I thought these particular protestors were full of shit.

    One of their signs said "Don't send Americans to die over Other people's problems!"

    I was like WTF? It's OPP how??? WTC is gone, and it's still OPP???

    And it's OK to them, the knowledge that innocent little kids are getting blown up by crazy people, and the murderers' families are getting paid by Iraq? It's OK!? Any day now, the suicide bombers could enter one of our shopping malls, or parking garages, or schools, and then it won't be OPP - it'll be OUR freaking problem.
  9. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    I guess it's misplaced compassion.

    See if this makes sense. You love animals. We shouldn't be cruel to them. But when you go (I'm assuming - play along with me here) to the hospital and see the little kids with their heads shaved and the blank stares in their eyes, you hope for a cure or something to help them.

    PETA is just upset mice have been used to test cancer cures.

    That's the difference. You see the big picture. These protestors can only focus on what they want to see.
  10. mikepd

    mikepd Veteran Member

    Protesters always only see what they want to see. If they were bold enough to see other points of view, they perhaps would not see the need to protest. I wonder what it would take to change their minds? How up close and personal must it get before they see the light? How many of their own must they bury?
  11. Techie2000

    Techie2000 The crowd would sing:

    I think that in the end it can go in both ways, as far as having no knowledge but supporting a cause goes. Too often I see people saying they either support or don't support item A or B without actually knowing everything about it, and without thinking about how it will actually affect them.
  12. cdw

    cdw Ahhhh...the good life.

    Well now, I dunno.... I guess I can't say much because I was ONE of the people in here asking Omar how come we didn't see any protesters marching against the terrorists. I don't see much difference between someone getting off their butt and being seen than someone writing an editorial in the newspaper. Since John Q public doesn't have the same visability as the editorial writer, what is it that you would like for him to do? I'm sure many protesters are paid, but there are a lot of people that are out there that aren't.

    Perhaps they did look at the other side and then formed an opinion. That's often what happens :)

    I'm not talking specifically speaking about the upcoming war, just protesters in general.

    As for the Viet Nam war, well, I didn't know anyone that wasn't effected, didn't know someone that was over there, and eventually didn't know someone who was killed, maimed or came home sick. It was a terrible time here. And, the protesting and the chaos wasn't just about the war, it was about governement and lies. It would have never happened if we didn't have the media capablities that were available.
  13. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    You'll find that many protestors are there for a single minded cause to create problems. There's a "professional" protestor here in Canada originally from England (I'll do some digging and find his name and history). All he does is stir up shit for protesting. There's a case before the courts now where one of the protests he started turned into a riot in front of the provencial parliament. Of course, he says the police started it by being there. Yeah right. All the videos that have been shown show that THEY started it.

    Hopefully they'll string up the trouble makers and send the ringleader packing back home to stir up trouble in his own country.
  14. joseftu

    joseftu ORIGINAL Pomp-Dumpster

    I want to sound another note here...

    It's generally unwise, and inaccurate, I think, to write off these protestors as just professional malcontents who don't have real jobs.

    This morning's Times reports that some of the protestors included "Rev. Jesse Jackson and the Rev. Al Sharpton, the actresses Jessica Lange and Tyne Daly, and Ron Kovic, the Vietnam veteran and antiwar activist," some of whom could certainly be said to be in need of real jobs.

    On the other hand, the same article mentions "Margaret Conway, 21, [who] drove overnight with 10 friends from a theater group at the University of Michigan. Sager Williams, 51, a lawyer, came with friends from Annapolis, Md. Howard Marland, 60, a carpenter, came to the rally with a dozen people from Dumbarton United Methodist Church in Washington."

    The article also quotes "Vicki Rosenwald, 53, a research nurse from New York who attended the rally with her husband and a group of friends. 'It's important for ordinary middle-aged, middle-class people to show up at these things because we can't be dismissed as campus radicals.'"

    I'm not sure I'm opposed to this war (although I'm troubled by the apparent inevitability--it doesn't seem to matter what kind of evidence or lack thereof gets found, we're attacking, and that's that).

    But I think the attitude of "get a job, ya damn hippies!" is a totally inappropriate response to protestors who (in at least some cases) are acting from sincere and well-researched principles and points of view.

    I've "marched on Washington" (and other places) many times. I've always done so because I felt that my country is a valuable place, and that my role and responsibility as a citizen and a human being is to make my beliefs known, and try to make things change for the better.

    Sure, there are some morons and silly clowns in any large protest. There are some "trust-fund radicals" and college students who are just looking to get laid or hear some free music or score some good pot. But there are also people of great intellectual and moral integrity. We shouldn't ignore them, even if we disagree.
  15. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    Joseftu, I think you make some valid points, but the people you mentioned in your post drove to Washington DC, correct? These people took time out of their lives, out of their schedules, and took on the expenses involved with getting to that rally. Honestly, I have respect for the people who showed up to Washington DC. I don't have respect for the bafoons I encountered yesterday.

    One guy was dressed as The Grim Reaper. I nearly ran him over because he stepped out in front of my truck to show me his sign.

    Other people were sitting on lawn chairs on the side of the street, making the street much narrower than it already was, forcing drivers such as myself to slow down and get bombarded with screams and yells and sign-waving. One person even yelled at me to HONK - he actually instructed me to honk. And I'm not sure about this, because I kept driving, but I do believe I heard someone say "Honk, Bitch"... WTF?

    The people I encountered yesterday are damned idiots. They have no idea what is at stake. All they care about is that gas prices remain low so they don't have to spend much at the market or to fill up their cars so they can go clubbing later. These people, for the most part, had signs saying the most insane things - stuff like "Don't let Uncle Sam kill our babies!". Uhh, Uncle Sam isn't killing anyone - your babies grew up and CHOSE to serve this country. The country now needs them.

    Do I think it's fair that people 18 - 30 are going to have to risk their lives for problems started by people much much older? Of course not. Do I want anyone to die? Just 2 - Saddam and Bin Laden. Do I realize that if we don't do something now, our future holds another terrorist attack that will make 9-11 look like a dress rehearsal? Yes, I do.

    I'm not trying to sound alarmist here, I'm trying to be realistic. We gave Iraq the chance back in the 90's to clean up his act. We kicked him out of Kuwait and didn't 'finish the job'. I take that as our way of giving him a chance. He hasn't taken that chance. Instead, he's decided to be stupid. And now with N. Korea smelling the blood in the water, I'm realizing that our world isn't a happy, peaceful place. I would love nothing more than to buy the world a Coke and teach it to sing. But it ain't gonna happen. What is going to happen is that other nations are going to think the US pussied out against a piece of shit government like Saddam's, and they're going to test if maybe they can mess with us. Everytime that happens, it costs American lives.

    What these protestors need to do is inform themselves of what's really at stake and then make a decision for THEMSELVES, not just tag along because their friends are going to a rally, and they want to experience what it was like in the 60's....
  16. cdw

    cdw Ahhhh...the good life.

    I guess you are talking about the "younger" crowd. I just found out a group from one of the local churches here went to washington. They are well read, in their 40's-50's and went to protest. I respect their opinion. I don't agree with it, but they see things in a different perspective.
    I do think they were idiots to plan a march when congress and the president aren't there, but, hey.....to each his own.
  17. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    Cyd, yah I was reffering to the people I encountered yesterday. Don't know about older folks going to the protest, but I didn't really see anyone much older than me at the protest.
  18. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

  19. Techie2000

    Techie2000 The crowd would sing:

    Misu, I think you have it backwards. The gas prices go down right after the war because we install a nice US friendly government who will let kind US oil companies come in and drill the oil for them eventually building a nice oil industry to support the country until some whackjob comes in and nationalizes the oil industry...
  20. FrankF

    FrankF #55170-054

    I don't see anything wrong with people organizing and participating in protest marches... so long as the people doing it actually believe in whatever cause they are protesting for or against.

    But (the point of my original post), many protestors don't really know or care what they protesting for or against. As was pointed out above, many are paid "professional protestors". Many more are impressionable youth... "campus radicals" or "sheep" who will believe and say anything they are told... especially for $10 per day.

    There is a difference between supporting a cause, and being a troublemaker though... for example:
    I strongly support the death penalty... but you will never see me at a protest march trying to kill police officers or judges.
    I believe paroled child molestors should never be released from prison, and citizens ought to have every right to kick their butts out of town and back into prison... you will never see me in a mob outside their house trying to castrate them.
    I believe that abortions should only be available to women who are the victims of rape or incest, or who will have a deformed baby... but you will never see me blowing up abortion clinics or killing abortion doctors or posting their names on the Internet.
    I do not believe that there is anything special about Jesus or the virgin Mary or Mohammed either... but you will never see me blow up a church, mosque, or synagogue.

    If I have a point to make, I can do so by writing my elected officials... or telephoning them... or visiting their office in person.

    But most of the protest march people I have seen seem to be whackos and fanatics who yell a lot and don't say much worth listening to.

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