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Disabled Mixed With Abled

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by ethics, Oct 27, 2002.

  1. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Moji Duenas cannot read and may never learn to. Nor can the 18-year-old walk or speak or feed herself. She is incontinent. Convulsions sometimes rattle her body...her case is testing the limits of inclusion.


    Despite her daughter's severe limitations, Juno Duenas insists that she spend most of her school day in 'regular' classes with a full-time aide and that she be given speech and physical therapy.

    Moji is a student in the San Francisco Unified School District, which is one of the first urban school systems to integrate most disabled students into regular classes. The inclusion model is an outgrowth of the 1975 Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, which is increasingly being interpreted to mean that separate classes should be the last resort. San Francisco began the program, in part, to reduce the number of African American children who may have been wrongly labeled as disabled.

    1. It's San Fran, did you expect any less?

    2. I am sorry folks, I am really pro-unity and all that. But when my kid is exposed to something like that, what is she/he be thinking?

    Is this even constitutional if I decided to sue the district because my kid can not concentrate in class?

    Sorry for being crass and cold, but I have my limits. Besides, I doubt the disabled kid is actually getting anything positive out of this and would be embarassed?

    Maybe I am just a cold hearted son of a bitch.

    Full Story
     
  2. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    My approach is much more pragmatic. If you already have 30 or 35 abled children in a classroom, then the introduction of a disabled person should have zero affect on the rest of the class. If the class slows down with additional time alotted to the disabled student, then it already costs too much.

    Considering that 1 in 6 of the students (on the west coast) is from illegal parentage and as such is taxing the system beyond its abilities rather than said parents actually contributing financially to a failed school system's ability to educate; anything that takes anymore away makes no sense...particularly when money is already there to educate disabled children.
     
  3. Sunriser13

    Sunriser13 Knee Deep in Paradise

    Oh, dear! That is such a difficult dilemma! :(

    On one hand, I want to see every advantage given to the disabled. Everything is more difficult; let's make as much as we can accessible.

    On the other hand, a young person such as described here seems unlikely to receive any tangible benefit from this policy. In addition, it could serve only to increase the divide, because the other kids, rather than learning tolerance for the disabled, are more likely to look upon this person with revulsion.
     
  4. jamming

    jamming Banned

    If the child cannot walk, speak, or feed themselves are they ever going to be a contributor to society? Can the child do the work with sufficient aid? Does the aid cost more than twice the cost of a normal student? I think their needs to be a reasonableness test, like the ADA, which calls for a reasonable accommodation. I say all this being on disablity myself.
     
  5. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    As do I, but there ARE limits in this.

    Sometimes I wonder where the parent's heads are in this? I mean, weren't THEY ever a kid and realize even being different in clothing will cause for victimhood?

    And yes, getting back to the education, WILL this person learn? What will they do with that knowledge?
     
  6. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    This kind of policy fails ShinyTop's logic test.
     
  7. Sunriser13

    Sunriser13 Knee Deep in Paradise

    Ah, but darling, I agree with you on limits. (See rest of my previous post below.)

    As hard as it is, we must admit that there is little that can be accomplished by mainstreaming the most seriously afflicted. Other ways can be made available for social interaction skills to be learned, if that person is even capable of that.

    I see little advantage for either the young person described in the article or for the other students in her classes.
     
  8. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    I got lost in the sun with the word Darling... Sorry, I'm a sucker for that. ;)

    Oh, the topic... Yes!

    LOL!

    :woopee:
     
  9. RRedline

    RRedline Veteran MMember

    Then perhaps Juno should just educate her daughter herself. Who is anyone to INSIST how a school teaches their children? Her daughter can not even feed herself, but she is somehow going to magically absorb knowledge from being in a classroom full of 'normal' children? I'm sorry, but this woman needs to accept that her daughter is not going to be a doctor or a lawyer. Why pretend that she has no handicap?

    She already collects free money for her daughter's disability, and she probably will for the rest of her life. Now she wants to force her local school to spend even more tax money on special treatment for her daughter? I'm sorry, but my opinion has nothing to do with being a "son of a bitch" as ethics put it. The nonsense going on in our schools continues to baffle me. So does this girl get to graduate and get a dimploma too even though she probably can't even write her own name? Does she get to be in honors calculus too? If she wants to try out for the bbasketball team, is her mother going to insist that they make special rules so that she can play?
     
  10. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    I have no easy answers, ethics. I'm generally inclined to question the benefit, if there is any, at all.

    I sometimes wonder about the mental state of such severely disabled persons. I wonder if there is anger, rage, despair? Unable to communicate any but the most basic of needs, how can such a person express their feelings? How must they feel when the see physically normal children playing, laughing, running, leaping, loving, living?

    I would go insane with frustration, anger, rage.....literally insane. My jealous hatred of the world around me would know no boundaries and accept no placating.

    Does it help such a person to be placed in a normal classroom environment? I do not know.

    I do know that, if it were me, it would just add misery to a life already experiencing a full measure of it.
     
  11. drslash

    drslash It's all about the beer

    This is common sense turned on its head.
     
  12. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    I would like to say if we have a physically disabled person who can mainstream academically an attempt should be made to allow this. Should the school board be forced to pay for a full time nurse. No, the expense is too much. If other agencies want to support these costs fine, but he school board has to be able to budget reasonably. To add a full time nurse for each student in a school system requiring help could cut teacher positions or even whole programs that are now in jeopardy. I think you have to use logic when determining accomodation.
     
  13. Kangaroo

    Kangaroo Passed Away June 15th, 2009

    Cannot read? How come this child is in school in the first place? Or is she in 1st grade permanently? If she can't learn, good bye.

    Next, mommy will sue to make the school put her child on the cheerleading team.
     
  14. Jedi Writer

    Jedi Writer Guest

    What a sticky problem. This is a good example of the problem of trying to categorize large groups of people with labels--in this case "disabled."

    I mean lets be reasonable and rational. There is an ENORMOUS range of levels and types of "disabilities." And isn't that the foundational problem with this issue?

    This probably is a good program for those who in lay terms would be considered good for those kids with certain type of diabilities generally consided less serious in their degree of limitation or impairment imposed upon those have them. On the other hand the child mentioned in the beginning of the article represents the other end of the spectrum.

    In general, if the "government" in San Francisco is for anything than without even knowing what that anything is I usually can conclude that I am against it. However, in this case is sound like possibly it is in theory a good idea to integrate the disabled but you have to place some type of controls or limitations on what level of diabled should be integrated as opposed to being separate and in a special education system.
     

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