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Debate is Dead

Discussion in 'Society and Culture' started by ethics, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    I am not using a hyperbole for the title either, and I had a feeling we will all get here eventually. By we/all I mean on Social Media. Try to post your opinion on Twitter or (God forbid) Facebook. You have a stance? You will be ridiculed, put down, and even cussed at. That's the new MO for what passes for debate.

    This is also the reason why GA still exists and why many left. They prefer the venue of not thinking, of NOT putting together a thoughtful, understanding, and even thought provoking idea or an opinion. Nope, not it's going after a source and we are done with the debate. But not here.

    Will forums like this come back? For the people that want a platform like that, it's already there. Don't believe it will be immersed in quantity, but definitely quality.

    I'll give you an example. When the white supremacists marched, peacefully, they were met with violence by the Antifa. My point was that you do not squelch freedom of speech and protest just because you disagree with their stance. Here, me, a Jew, defending the freedom of speech and protest of white supremacists who happen to hate people like me. What I was met with was more than disturbing. We went from putting me down for my stance to calling to take away the rights, of extreme Right Wingers, because we need to make exception for people like that. These are the same people who have no problem marching under Hammer and Sickle flags? It's like I am back home all over again.

    People also lost their shit on the whole kneeling in NFL. I mean..???? Seriously?

    There's a few people who see these issues and come out on a very minor, VERY minority, stance over these issues. Many are here in this forum, but on a popular scale, there's Dan Carlin.

    Check it out here: Show 317 - Shades of Grey — Common Sense with Dan Carlin — Overcast
    Susan Addams and Arc like this.
  2. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    We've been saying for years that social media has had a very detrimental effect on society as a whole. When people get into a comfortable bubble that allows them to stick their heads into the sand, society as a whole suffers. And I don't see it correcting itself anytime soon, either.

    Take the current witch hunts with all the current crop of sexual harassment stories. Poor bastards are crucified in the court of popular opinion before the truth is even known all in the name of social justice. SJW is pretty much synonymous with idiotic moron.
  3. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    This brings the point home I think.

    Here we have an individual who is so dependent on Facebook she can't connect with friends the old fashioned way. So, rather than looking in the mirror and realizing social media isn't all that it's touted to be, she blames Facebook for a friend dying and her not knowing about it.
  4. Susan Addams

    Susan Addams Unregistered User

    There is a simple reason why debate is dead. All that social media gives us is the symptoms of the disease. Debate died years ago, leaving us with only the appearance of debate. The form without the substance. What we have in debate is a wish sandwich. We wish we had something in it but all we have is two pieces of bread.

    You can't have a debate when it's just people yelling at each other. Society has become polarized to the degree that there is just no common ground. When there is no potential to arrive at a consensus what is the point of discussing it at all? Yet that is what we have today in our society and in our government, and the news and social media are merely a reflection of the real events.

    But what are the real events? Hello? I'll give you a hint: the elections are rigged. We are given the right to vote to give us the feeling we are participating, but in fact we are not. The DNC picks the Democrat candidate and the RNC picks the Republican candidate. This most recent election was somewhat unusual for many reasons. The fact is that on the Democrat side Billary bought and paid for the DNC about a year before the primaries, and Bernie running at all was just a farce because HRC already had the candidacy in her purse. (That's why HRC didn't do any debates. Why debate what has already been bought and paid for.) The Republican side was a bit more interesting because of the confuxification factor of a non-politician Trump, and it turns out that this time not being a politician trumps a rigged election with HRC and her purse, and also Bill's wallet. The public voted Trump into office because they were fed up with politicians, pure and simple. Trump was the "I've had enough of this bullshit" choice.

    But wait, it just gets better. You would think that all of us being Americans, you know, that all of us would want a good America. That's just common sense. Unfortunately common sense is an oxymoron because sense is a scarce commodity. Now that the Democrats have lost, the only thing they want to do is bring government to a halt, impeach Trump if they can, or otherwise just throw the wrench in the gears. The Republicans on the other hand have had several years to think up fixes for Obamacare, but here they are nit picking over details to the point that they might as well have been sitting on their hands. You would think that a majority could simply outvote the minority and put the plan through. But the problem is they never had any plan. I was surprised that Trump won even though I voted for him. Even the Republicans thought he was going to lose because they would have had a plan if they had any clue. Apparently the RNC does not like having a candidate they didn't pick, and are much more unhappy with Trump's brashness.

    What we have now is that the plan is to have no plan, and the default result is we have no progress. Recently it appeears that the Republican tax plan may actually pass. What have we all been doing? We are simply watching the appearance of government and we get peccadillos instead. We are watching a soap opera my friends, this is merely sick entertainment. I'd be out of it except the markets have been good. The market has been especially good to Suzy because you know Suzy always loves her gold! ;)

    You all know the principle of magic. Magic is great in fantasy novels but in real life magic is powered by misdirection. You are all so focused on watching the magician wave his hand that you are not seeing what his other hand is doing. There isn't really any difference between the parties. Either way what we get is a government out of control. What difference does it make anyway if you get to vote for whoever you want, but the parties get to pick who runs? Either way you vote you got a candidate that a political machine picked. In the case of Trump he's an outlier and everything else is controlled by the machine. You will surely remember that it is only Congress who can enact laws. Trump can only sign the bills, veto the bills, or ignore them. But there are no bills. Well maybe, let's see if the tax legislation is a bill or mere smoke being blown up our asses.

    People are frustrated. Put a pressure cooker on the stove and heat it up and it either lets off steam or the pot explodes. Social media is the steam that keeps the pot from exploding. People are merely venting their frustration so what you are watching is just nothing more than hot air and a little bit of moisture. There is no more chance of compromise in social media and in society than there is in Congress.

    The key to being happy and successful is to do what Suzy did. She turned off the news and turned on the music. Suzy doesn't watch all the hand waving. She leaves that for people who misperceive the appearance of progress as actual progress when there is no hope of that. The stock market is doing well. Suzy plays the market and patiently waits for Congress to pass legislation that may affect our taxes—if there is any bill at all—and plans to let her CPA arrange her finances to take best tax strategy that brings Suzy her gold. Oh yes, I love my gold! :)

    Please take my advice. Turn off the news. Ignore social media. Turn on the music and take advantage of what we have. Make hay while the sun shines. If against all likely odds Congress actually passes any bill, just array your tax planning according to whatever they pass. I have a fantastic CPA and she is my expert. She says Suzy do this and Suzy does it. That's the point of having an expert. Everybody thinks I'm smart because I make money. Silly people, I'm not smart at all unless you count being smart is having an expert who makes you look smart.

    Your news is bullshit! Social media is steam coming off a hot pile of shit. If ever there were ever a time when we had any choice, that was long gone when being a politician became a career, rigging the machine. You will recall that our original concept of government was the citizen-politician who left their ordinary life for a short period in government and then returned to their ordinary life. Those times are gone. Go ahead and do the math. Every public office has the salary as public knowledge. Pick any career politician and add up the total salary during each of the offices they held and you can calculate how much they were paid to date. Why is it always that they end up more wealthy than the salary they received would indicate. I give you the best example right in front of us: Billary. You know, the power couple who bought the DNC before the primary. Their plan would have succeeded except for one factor. They miscalculated that Americans would be as dumb as always. Nobody realized that the public was fed up and wanted a non-politician as President. I'll have to admit that I'm pretty disgusted that somebody doesn't take Trump's tweeter away, but all it is is blather anyway, just more misdirection whether intentionally or not.

    I'll leave you with this. Q: How do you tell an honest politician? A: If he is poor then he's honest.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  5. MemphisMark

    MemphisMark Old School Conservative

    So many things in this post.

    I was yelled at, etc., on social media for having the audacious position of telling the guy who runs the Daily Stormer how to fight to get his hosting/domain back, because if his speech is squelched today, I may be the target tomorrow. Yesterday I said Judge Moore should sue his accusers for defamation of character if they do not continue to pursue something to akin a civil suit against him.

    I supported NFL players from Kapernick on for kneeling for whatever their reason. I also support those that don't want to see politics in a game. I myself turned off my football monitoring when that started and I have no interest in restarting.

    I wrote an article for my blog named "At, To and With." I talk about how we communicate. When I am talking AT someone, it is generally through a negative emotion (anger, frustration, etc.) and I don't give a shit if they are listening or not. I am going to get this out and what you do with it is your business. Think a "verbal bukkake." When I talk TO someone, it's pretty much the same thing, just not as intense. "I'm going to give them a good talking to!" and all that. At least there will be a few "Yes, Sir's" and "No, Sir's" to show it is a minimal conversation. When we talk WITH someone, that's a two-way street and we both learn from the other. Those kind of conversations are impossible to have on social media.

    One friend (who is a liberal) we mostly agree in person. After reading what he posts on FB, I want to go to his house and take up after him with a baseball bat. This is why I have unfollowed everyone in my friend list and check in once a week for certain groups.

    Then you have the "short-term, dopamine-driven feedback loop" that Facebook has cultivated. Former Facebook VP says social media is destroying society with ‘dopamine-driven feedback loops’

    I can't say in writing what I want to do with Washington as a whole. To do so would earn me a visit from Serious Men in Bad Suits from Alphabet Agencies asking Awkward Questions.
  6. Arc

    Arc Full Member

    If you want to see batshit crazy where debate theoretically should be, just look at the reader or viewers' comment section on mainstream news sites. Mainstream news sites and you find the lowest level of "discourse" from the reader or viewers that choose to comment.
    Allene likes this.
  7. Allene

    Allene Registered User

    Been there, done that! :(

  8. MemphisMark

    MemphisMark Old School Conservative

    And you can tell from what they wrote most of them haven't read past the third paragraph. They are outraged over the title and/or the opening that they don't read the whole thing to find out that near the end the writer either a) contradicts himself, or b) disavows some/all of what came before by saying the information came from "uncorroborated sources."
    Allene likes this.
  9. dsl987

    dsl987 Member

    I am centrist on many things, and therefore tend to read anything from both ends of the spectrum. It really is amazing how both sides can frame the same news topic in such different ways. No wonder the country is so polarized.
    cdw and Allene like this.
  10. Susan Addams

    Susan Addams Unregistered User

    I am surprised that my indictment of the system had so little effect.

    I spent an hour on that post and you didn't even read it?
  11. MemphisMark

    MemphisMark Old School Conservative

    Most of my news reading is center-left and hard-left. I read these because 1) I don't need to have my views validated by reading Conservative content, 2) I want to what my adversaries are up to ("Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer.") because 3) I like using Political Judo to use their words against them (mixed with common sense) to destroy their own arguments.
  12. MemphisMark

    MemphisMark Old School Conservative

    I did read it. My OP in this thread was toward your post. Sorry I didn't quote you.
  13. Susan Addams

    Susan Addams Unregistered User

    I think my post was a pretty hard hitting indictment against our government and how the system has become totally corrupted, or at least I tried to make my case.

    I see no point in following whatever the government or MSM says. Just follow the passed legislation.
    MemphisMark likes this.
  14. Arc

    Arc Full Member

    Watched latest Frontline tonight. Afterward, they announced upcoming shows. Coming in January is the topic of why the US residents and its politicians are so divided. The Frontline trailer had content that stated among other things that Congress being so partisan and each side(s) uncompromising there is no compromising or progress. It is not partisan politics anymore, it's political war. Political and social life or death. It's not about change or attempting to make better but only about winning and losing.

    The Frontline title: "The Divided States of America." Or something like that. (Hey, its been longer than five minutes since I heard the title announced. Cut me some slacks. )

    I'm guessing social media will be a player in the Frontline presentation. Should be interesting.
  15. Susan Addams

    Susan Addams Unregistered User

    Arc, that sounds like a fantastic show and I surely hope I can view it. It goes right back to my "epic" (in my own mind) post earlier in the topic. I will be interested in whether they support my theories.

    People, in case you didn't notice, I ripped our government to shreds with my post above. Whether any of you agree with me is up to you. I enjoyed writing the essay and have emailed it to a few friends.

    We have a monster that is out of control!
  16. dsl987

    dsl987 Member

    Love Frontline, they have some really great stuff on there. 60 Minutes still turns out some good shows, and then there is also Nova.
  17. Susan Addams

    Susan Addams Unregistered User

    I do have a tendency to forget that my favorite shows weren't the weekly crime drama and sitcoms, they were always the documentaries, cooking programs, Nat Geo, Frontline, etc.

    I should be able to catch this program even if after the broadcast date.
  18. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Ever wonder why you don't see the tech titans use social media?

    ‘Never get high on your own supply’ – why social media bosses don’t use social media

    Allene likes this.
  19. Susan Addams

    Susan Addams Unregistered User

    Anybody who has been reading this topic would know for sure why social media bosses wouldn't use social media.

    Too bad Trump didn't get the message.
    Allene likes this.
  20. cdw

    cdw Ahhhh...the good life.

    Heheh... "Ethics" posted an example just the other day of his facebook screen...the take of one side of an issue and the take of the other side on the same issue. Cracked me up. :) I dunno...this place wasn't all that different (which he pointed out) and some time back we had issues beyond and had to have moderators. I guess what you get out of your page is what you put into it. I've let some people go for quite some time, while asking them to please stop or posting..umm, gentlemen can we keep this civil please? If if did work time after time either I ditched the thread or ditched the person.
    Allene, MemphisMark and ethics like this.

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