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Damn, lazy poor children.

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by -Ken, Dec 28, 2002.

  1. -Ken

    -Ken Guest

    <small>As quoted from this article,</small>
    "Boston figures showed that about one-third of school-age children living in the city in 1999 and 1995 were living below the poverty line - which varies according to the number of adults and children per household. For a household made up of two adults and two children, for example, that meant earning less than $17,463 in 1999."

    In the single paragraph above, two things struck me.

    First, one out of three children live in poverty in Boston.
    Boston is not some poor backwater city like Gary, Indiana.
    It is a vibrant city resplendent with unimaginable wealth.

    Second, the idea that two adults and two children could
    live on $17,463 for a year
    in any other state than complete
    and utter misery. Have the people who set these numbers ever
    been to a grocery store? Have they ever had children? Do these
    heartless bastards even have a clue? Hey, let's not forget there
    are taxes to be paid! No wonder our poverty rates look so low!

    I hereby challenge every single member of both houses of congress to live for one month on $1,455.25 ($17,463 divided by 12). I would especially like to invite President Bush and his family to do the same for the next three months. To be completely and honestly impartial in this offer, I would also like to extend this invitation to any members of this board who feel the poor are getting a "free ride" courtesy of our welfare system.

    Something tells me the experience would be extremely educational.
     
  2. Frodo Lives

    Frodo Lives to hit it!

    That sounds like a great idea for a new Survivor. Now all we need is a snazy name like Survivor: Politically Poor or Survivor: Reality.
     
  3. -Ken

    -Ken Guest

    Great idea.
    How about something like...
    <center>
    Survivor - The Ultimate Challenge?

    That's right, you've seen them eat rats,
    insects and every other disgusting thing
    we could think of but nothing could ever
    prepare you for this.


    The Ultimate Challenge?
    Boston for a family of four
    on $17,463/year before taxes!
     
  4. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    Looks like they've raised the amount that would make you legally poor in this country. I remember when it was much less - something like 13,500 for a family of 4.

    The numbers they provide are insane. These numbers assume that people earning that little are housed in government housing (which many are not) and are eating with the help of food stamps (which they aren't). It's extremely hard to qualify for either form of help, so most people end up renting in really bad areas and eating Ramen Noodles.

    However, when you compare our level of poverty to levels of poverty in other parts of the world, it quickly becomes obvious that our poor don't have it so bad. It's a universal fact that children make up the majority of the world's poor - US poor children at least get to attend public schools and have a chance to do well and earn scholarships to college. Our poor have a chance to get out of poverty. Can't say the same for the rest of the planet :(
     
  5. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    Conveniently left out of the railing here:
    But then I suppose it takes some of the punch out of the thread ;)
     
  6. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    ...and education and opportunity for the taking. One of the major problems of the poor in the inner city is that they have become "comfortable" living as they do and do not try to pull themselves "out of the gutter".

    Another major factor in this that is too often overlooked is the fact that parents of children in the inner city minority communities do not do the parenting thing very well at all. Yes, Ken... another generalization, but also a very high statistical fact. Not only do I see these things being reported on television or in the newspaper. I have witnessed it first hand and have seen how these children are raised.

    <li> These parents will shuffle their kids out the door and let them do anything they wish, so long as the kids stay out of their hair.
    <li> They do not take the time make sure the children do their school work, much less help them with it.
    <li> When their children get into any kind of trouble with the law, it is immediately blamed on the racist law enforcement officials instead of that little thing you like to always bring up... "personal acountability". It's always someone elses fault. In fact, everything that the kid does wrong is someone elses fault, and that's how the children are raised to play the "<i>Blame Game</i>" instead of taking that "personal accountability".
    <li> Thes children lack the love, respect and guidance at home which is required to turn them into an upstanding citizen in this world and go elsewhere to seek that love. More often than not, they end up in one of these street gangs and it pretty much always turns out tragically one way or another.
    <li> Then, the 70% of children born out of wedlock and are brought up this way just continue the circle by doing the exact same thing that their parents did for them... n-o-t-h-i-n-g. They know no better and really cannot do it any differently because they simply do not know how to.

    One cannot have an iota of a clue about how things really work in communities like this by simply reading articles and "doing the math". If you have not been there... and I do not mean just <b>visited</b> the ghetto... then I can understand you wanting to blame the government or anyone else other than these "<i>poor, helpless, poverty stricken</i>" city folk.

    But I also know how wrong you are. It is not the government's responsibility to raise children, and until <b>parents</b> start doing so they will remain at the poverty level blaming everyone and everything else for their problems taking that free ride that you obviously have not seen them take. I have seen many, many, many of these families driving damned near brand new cars to the grocery store to buy groceries...

    with <b>food stamps</b>.

    It is no where near as bad as you make it out to be with the statistics you get from a newspaper, television program or website. And as sad as it is, many of them don't want to go anywhere else or just don't have the initiative to do it.

    Believe it or not.
     
  7. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    Coot, you vicious SOB... ;)

    SM
     
  8. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    Given the decline of barroom brawling as a leisurely pasttime, I thought it prudent to find another hobby ;)
     
  9. -Ken

    -Ken Guest

    Why Coot, I'm surprised you would quote the Mayor's Spin-Doctor so readily without a little suspicion. And, I must admit only being in a complete state of desperation and hunger for only a year or two is much better than permanently surviving in that state.

    Of course, your statement saves me the trouble of answering Haywire's discourse because if in fact, ''Lower-income families are coming to the city, making it their home base and making progress at a daily, monthly, yearly rate, and then they get out of the city.''

    Maybe it would be best if you guys discussed that amongst yourselves and get back to me.

    On the other hand, anyone up for the Ultimate Challenge?

    <small>Oh and Haywire, when I was younger, I traveled all around this fine country of ours. In 1979, I lived Buena Park, CA just a few blocks from Knotts Berry Farm. It wasn't a nice neighborhood then. In 1981 (after moving around a little) I moved to Chicago - three blocks from Cabrini-Green. I'm sure Rowd can tell you about the neighborhood. I also lived in some pretty tough neighborhoods near where I'm from originally. I guess we just see people differently. </small>
     
  10. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    Ken, I see you conveniently left out this part
    Now put that with the other part and it would seem to paint a clearer picture.

    What do I see coming next? Advocacy for two mercedes in every immigrant garage and pate de foie gras in every immigrant pot?

    As to your challenge, I'll pass, I've already lived through it and at substantially less.
     
  11. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    Perhaps that is the case in Boston. I should have stated strictly from my knowledge and experience. That is absolutely not the case in the sister cities of Washington D.C. and Baltimore. :)
     
  12. -Ken

    -Ken Guest

    Coot,

    I'm sorry, I didn't realize hunger was less appreciable in immigrant children. Why should we worry about these kids? I mean, they're all from countries where they are used to starvation. It probably makes them tough, right? After all, they'll get free education <i>(it's so much easier to learn when you know it will be Ramen Noodles for dinner again anyway).</i>

    Maybe, you are suggesting they should be happy to live in the bottommost rung of society, it should be enough for them to be here and take part in all our riches (oh, that's not right, now is it?).

    From they way you are making it sound, I'm guessing you feel $17,463/year before taxes is plenty.

    And speaking of histrionics, pate de foie gras and a Mercedes? My, it seems we do jump to incredible conclusions. I ask that no child be sent to bed hungry and you understand me to mean luxury cars and gourmet foods.

    Is this what they refer to as <i><u>hearing with an accent?</u></i>

    Haywire,

    Many years ago I spent some time in Baltimore and later the DC area. Both are real tough places with some pretty bad problems. The worst thing I saw was the hopelessness in people's eyes. Sorry there isn't somebody who will do more for those cities. Their leaders are just not taking these places forward. I pity them.
     
  13. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    Ahh Ken...perpetually tilting at windmills. By simply quoting the reference you cited, I point out that these immigrant families are doing precisely what is expected of them. They come here poor, they work hard and move up...making room for the next round of immigrants. I see nothing broken that needs money thrown at it...in short, I see no reference to starvation or rampant disease in the article.

    Where you would see sub-standard subsistence, these people see opportunity and incentive, and they seize it; unlike many of the 3rd and 4th generation poverty stricken in most inner cities who have become inured to suckling at the government teat and see no opportunity outside that existence, but only the inner city trap of high crime, substance abuse and demoralizing decay.
     
  14. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    Hoplessness my buttocks, Ken. I lived there for 13 <i>loooooonnnggg</i> years. Misery in their own contentment is more like it.

    I have seen many of these people dig their way out of the "slum". I have seen many more just give up and stay on welfare, deal drugs and fuck everything that breathes... hence the 70% of children in these hoods being born out of wedlock and most often without even knowing who their real father is.

    Education is handed to them. Granted, it's not Harvard being handed to them, but they can absolutely get a decent education and get out of where they are if that's really what they wanted.

    But that's too much like "work". Why work for a living when evetything is provided to them... food... clothing... housing. You really have no idea what a large percentage of the people in question are truly content in their lives. That's all they know and they were not raised to work for their own keep. They were taught, by example of their parents, to head to the welfare office when it's time to renew their application.

    As far as the immigrant thing goes...

    Like I said... I lived in the Washington D.C./Baltimore area for over 13 years. Everything I stated above is absolute fact. It just so happens that those two cities have the highest population of blacks than any other city in this country.

    Then, I move to Texas and hear Texans bitching about Mexicans...

    "<i>Damned Mexicans are taking our jobs!</i>"

    "<i>Damned Mexicans this!</i>"

    "<i>Damned Mexicans that!</i>"

    Well, all I have seen is Mexicans immigrating here... getting a job... working their asses off for minimum wage... sometimes two and three jobs... <b>taking care of their families</b>... and all in a country where they can barely <small>(IF AT ALL)</small> speak the language!

    Now, I submit to you that if a foreigner can come here and do it, then why the hell can't people who were born in this country do it?

    Because they're too damned lazy and would rather stay right where they're at, Ken. They don't want to get out of the poverty they live in. If they did... <b>THEY'D DO IT</b>. Period.

    Or <strike>perhaps</strike> I'm sure you see it differently in all of your travels and experience.
     
  15. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    Holy shit! Coot and I sound almost exactly alike here! Gotta love it, eh Coot? ;)
     
  16. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    But somehow Coot left out the rant against blacks.
     
  17. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    I'm only speaking from my own experiences and nothing I stated was not absolute fact. Sorry if you see it as a rant. :_

    Typical Liberal... Someone says the word "black" and it's immediately, "<i>OH MY GOD! DID YOU HEAR WHAT HE SAID?!?! WHAT A RACIST! WHAT A HATER! DAMN HIM TO HELL!</I>"

    Give it a break dude. :rolleyes:
     
  18. -Ken

    -Ken Guest

    Hey Coot,

    The fact of the matter is, children are being sent to bed hungry. I will continue to tilt at those windmills until this country puts an end to this child cruelty. Any parent who cannot feed their child is not fit to have children, wouldn't you say? Isn't that a form of neglect? Nothing mentioned in the article about not feeding their children? Hey, when you've got a minute, whip out that fancy calculator and tell us how $250+/- a week feeds and shelters a family of four. Maybe, it will inspire to leave a larger than 15% tip next time your being waited on. Of course, if the service is bad...

    And, I would have to agree with Haywire, you are starting to sound a lot more like him!
     
  19. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    What dagger is this I find in my back? You impugn me sir. I fear I have no recourse but to run with scissors ;)
     
  20. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    The parents are sending their children to bed hungry, Ken. Not the government.
    Can't argue with you there.
    Yep. More and more people are waking and seeing the reality of it all, Ken.

    It's not <b>my</b> place to raise <b>your</b> children. If you cannot do it, you have no right what-so-ever... be it civil right, human right, what<b>EVER</b>... to have any children.

    In fact, <b>MANY</b> of these people will have as many children as they can because they get <b>MORE</b> handed to them for each kid they push out.

    I know... I know... all the more responsibility for you and me. Right, Ken? :rolleyes:
     

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