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CT receiving smallpox virus

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Domh, Jan 24, 2003.

  1. Domh

    Domh Full Member

  2. cdw

    cdw Ahhhh...the good life.

    Those vaccinations are happening all over, not just conn..
    I don't think it's anything to worry about.
    As for Plum Island, well, on LI we try and figure out which is gonna get us first... the disease or something in the water from Brookhaven National Labs. I have my money on the water.
  3. Domh

    Domh Full Member

    "Health workers in Connecticut called "The Genesis Team" are first in line to get the smallpox vaccine. "

    This is the first phase, starting in CT and then continuing depending on the effects of the first phase.

    I have a nuke plant 10 miles away north AND south and Plum Island, a BioSecurity level 4 facility openly working with anthrax, 20 miles away.

    Why did I leave Vermont?

  4. mikepd

    mikepd Veteran Member

    Well, I was vaccinated against smallpox as a child. There is a lot of real science on the internet and far more junk noise drowning it out by people with an agenda. A Google search on smallpox vaccination will turn up sites using articles from 1905 to base their reasoning why vaccinations are bad. Garbage logic leads to garbage opinions. Any vaccine based on a weakened strain (not the right term but the idea is there) has the potential for severe side effects. The polio vaccine comes to mind. The world is not a risk free place. If the country is at risk of a huge epidemic from a smallpox attack, which would you rather have as a citizen of this country? Not as an individual but thinking of the larger picture. A certain small number of deaths from vaccination reactions or a much larger number of deaths, economic disruption, civil disorder, panic, strain on health care and all the other massive disruptions an even moderate smallpox outbreak would cause? What about an outbreak that occurred simultaneously in several states? Where exactly is your comfort level? Is my generation made of sterner stuff (not to mention my parents')? I refuse to believe we were dumber or not as informed. Just because it is on the Internet does not make it gospel. Where the hell is critical, individual thinking? So let's just wait for the ERs to fill up people with flu signs, rash, and a lot of pain. The only option that I'm aware of at that point is to isolate them to stop the spread of the disease. The consequences of this will be martial law and suspension of posse comitatus in any large scale outbreak as only the military would have the resources to control and manage the chaos. Make no mistake, chaos is not to mild a word to use. I have seen what happens in a local mass casualty event up close and personal in the medical field and it is not like on tv. It does not get neatly done in two hours with time out for commercial breaks. I am amazed that people can watch 3,000 people die live in real time in front of them on 9/11 and not make the connection that terrorism is the underlying cause. We have already forgotten we are in a war. The deaths on that day have lost some of their significance. We have gone back to our fat, comfortable lives. The threat of lawsuits, individual harm is of more import than the safety of the nation as a whole. If this were Jan. 25, 1942 with the same resources as today, we'd probably be debating what to do about Hitler. We survived vaccinations years ago and will survive them today. Make them mandatory with criminal liability for refusal. Fast track whatever needs to be done to make it happen (educate the people on risk/benefit analysis). Or not. Then if something does happen, let natural selection take its course. Decrease the surplus population of those who don't understand the concept of risks/benefits. Works for me.
  5. Domh

    Domh Full Member

    I was vaccinated for smallpox as a child as well.

    I dont believe that vaccination will be much help for me this far down the road, due to natural or manipulated changes in the strain.

    I think it may ensure that we dont have a poor reaction to the vaccination, thats about all.

    I may be wrong though.
  6. cdw

    cdw Ahhhh...the good life.

    Would ya quit calling me fat? :)

    I too had the vacination as a kid. Along with the little sugar cubes for polio (they were goood!)
    I beleive the "worry" is about the effect it has on the older person.
    I haven't forgotten 9/11 nor have I forgotten that we are at war.
    I would get the shots if I was able....but, I still get to worry about it too!
  7. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    Vaccinated as a child and several times in the military until I got out. The vaccination is good for ten years. If offered you should get it.
  8. midranger4

    midranger4 Banned

    As reported by Fox News a much larger number of the Genesis team were scheduled to get the vaccine and the vast majority of them dropped out at the last minute.

    Nobody is saying why as of yet.
  9. mikepd

    mikepd Veteran Member

    The point being how many of the population have never been vaccinated? Just because you and I were vaccinated is no guarantee we are still safe from smallpox. Now that was a real eye opener for me. I thought that once you were vaccinated, you might need boosters but that was about it. Now it seems from what I have been reading that enough time has passed to possibly put me back into the catagory of people who have never been vaccinated. Not sure on this and I have to ask my doctor to sort this out. Given my health problems, it is something I don't take lightly. There are risk/benefits to almost everything we do. What I don't doubt is the intention of terrorists to kill as many of us as they possibly can. They have demonstrated this many times. It will get worse before it ever gets better. It will not get better by giving them candy and saying pretty please. It will change by reaching out to the moderates, making policy decisions that includes them in our goals. Isolate the fanatics that want only to kill and return the favor.
  10. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    I think you folks are missing the variable in which I explained why the smallpox TODAY (in comparison to when you were a child) IS dangerous. I'll try to find my post.
  11. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Here's some info...

    The <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1958217.stm">BBC reports</a> that a biological attack could cause ten times more deaths than a nuclear strike, but <a href="http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox/vaccination/facts.asp">according to the CDC</a>, 1 of every 100,000 people vaccinated will become seriously ill, and 1 in every million will die. But some doctors are less optimistic. Dr. B.A. Rubin, quoted in the <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/01/24/smallpox.vaccine/index.html">CNN article</a>, says "[The vaccine is] unnecessary, and it's a lot more hazardous than people are led to believe... One hundred percent get reactions, and some are very nasty."

    If inoculation were freely available, would you get it?
  12. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

  13. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    Re: Here's some info...

    Ok, this is the first time that I hear that 100% of of those who get the shot get a reaction. Is this the same shot as the one people here have gotten in their childhood? It didn't use to give 100% reactions - what has changed??

    Until I get those questions answered, and see some studies, I don't think I'll be getting the shot. Right now, anyway.
  14. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member


    I've argued with Ken on this a while back but the two posts that I can point to are here and this one.
  15. Techie2000

    Techie2000 The crowd would sing:

    I don't like needles. I never was vaccinated for smallpox. If they can promise me I'll live through it then I'll get it. Otherwise I'm not getting a vaccine that could kill me to prevent something else from killing me.
  16. mikepd

    mikepd Veteran Member

    The people here, I worry very little about. Those who think American Idol is more important than American foreign policy, I have a great deal of worry about. They are easily led by slanted media of various persuasion. The people here are not so simply misled! Yes, there are plenty who have already filed 9/11 as past news and moved on. Vietnam is ancient history and WWII is beyond their comprehension. Their world is comprised of sound bites and video clips, critical analysis is lost on them. TV 'Reality Shows' pass for real world reality. Sad. The stakes are to high now and saying the fate of the nation is not that much of a stretch. MAD succeeded as a policy during the Cold War for both sides, no matter how much they advocated their respective political beliefs, were rational men. The terrorists are not rational. I would submit that any group that uses suicide as a means to an end is neither rational nor to a certain extent predictable. If we are to prevail in this war (and it will be a long term war, far longer than any we have ever fought) we must think not just for the individual good but the national good. The same spirit that helped us win WWII must be brought out if we are to win this time. In so far as we have the Ramsey Clarks out there with people buying his message then yes, we have returned to our fat, comfortable ways. Our attention span is pathetic, we let talking heads on tv spoon feed us pre-packaged pap, political cion commitees have more clout than 'we the people' Reality TV draws more interest than reality. There is a major disconnect in this country and thinking a problem does not exist no matter how hard you wish it, does not make it go away. Think about this, Saadam is playing the same old game of give a little while getting away with as much as he can. He is under default of the treaty he signed ending the Gulf War back in 1991. AFAIK, he has not completely lived up to any of the UN resolutions passed concerning Iraq. People buy into Saadam's propaganda and he is just little misunderstood and Bush is the devil incarnate? Please.
  17. cdw

    cdw Ahhhh...the good life.

    Two questions:
    The article says they have been giving the shot to the military...
    what were the percentages and results from those?

    I was vacinated as a kid, but, I am a hell of a lot older now... no one really says anything about that...?

    Since I read that it would be effective up to 4 days after getting the disease, wouldn't the ideal way to handle it is to wait?

    I dunno...
  18. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Not sure if you will ever hear percentages on the military vaccinations. I don't think there's even approved studies for the military?
  19. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    Re: Here's some info...

    Now if you'd be so kind, please post the accidental death rates in America.

    I'll do it for you. In 1998 about <a href="http://vkus.freeyellow.com/DeathStats.html">92,000</a> people died from accidental causes. Assuming everyone gets vaccinated only once, that's about 322 times higher than dieing from this vaccination in a year's time, assuming a population of 285,000,000.

    So this vaccination will kill (if they are correct) 285 people while 92,000 will die from accidents this year.

    Which figure are you losing more sleep over? :)

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