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Civil Forfeiture

Discussion in 'Society and Culture' started by ethics, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

  2. damonlab

    damonlab Veteran Member

    They are more appropriately called Republicrats. Both parties are beholden to the same corporate interests and I see no change coming anytime soon.
     
  3. SixofNine

    SixofNine Jedi Sage Staff Member

    I read this story in the hard copy issue last night and it made my blood boil. Never have laws intended for one purpose (going after organized crime and drug kingpins) been so abused. What can you expect when those who can use traffic pretext stops to seize the assets get to keep them?

    I think that history is going to judge us harshly on this erosion of rights as well as the abuses that have happened in the name of fighting terrorists.
     
  4. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    What, rolling around in shit in Zuccotti Park begging for someone else to take care of your financial problems ain't good enough for you, pal?

    NOOOOO, say it ain't so!
     
  5. Allene

    Allene Registered User

    I'm really shocked that they can get away with this stuff!
     
  6. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member


    I am still shaking. This is America?
     
  7. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    It's very chilling, and it has me wondering more than a little about the course of the nation. And that's a pretty conservative part of Texas, too, so it's not like it's just the liberals rolling over for some dough.
     
    ethics likes this.
  8. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    I don't think corruption of public officials is limited to any party, race, beliefs, etc. When the people who enforce laws find ways to use them for their profit it hurts us all. In my experience there is nothing more dishonest than contractors on government contracts. Then departments letting these contracts make rules so convoluted that they can be interpreted anyway they want. Check out DOD as one of the worst examples.
     
  9. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Seems some in Canada are looking to get in on the action as well. Thankfully, the courts squashed the idea. For now.

    Could you imagine? An entire province making out like bandits because you got popped for speeding.
     
  10. Allene

    Allene Registered User

    Couldn't they just revoke his motorcycle license for a certain period of time?
     
  11. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    They most likely did. But they wanted to go a step further and seize the motorcycle. For speeding.
     
  12. cmhbob

    cmhbob Did...did I do that? Staff Member

    But there's no money in that, Allene. And that's the entire focus of civil forfeiture.

    I don't have a huge problem with the basic idea. You should not be able to keep the fruits of a criminal action. But the way CF is done now, it's like a bank for jurisdictions to get money from. CF actions should be against a person, not the property, and agencies should be held to the same standards as a criminal case: proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
     
  13. Allene

    Allene Registered User

    On second cup of coffee now and reviewing the earlier portion of this thread. Yeah, it's all about $$$$$$$.
     
  14. SixofNine

    SixofNine Jedi Sage Staff Member

    Perhaps it should even be limited to adjudicated criminal cases.
     
  15. cmhbob

    cmhbob Did...did I do that? Staff Member

    Oh, absolutely. But the government's complaint about that is that it would allow the alleged bad guys to be able to pay for their defense, or move the money around.

    Just put a freeze on the accounts until the verdict is in, and move on from there.
     
  16. Kluge

    Kluge Observing your world for over 50 years

    I'm reading a free e-book called Rome: Its Rise and Fall.
    I am amazed at the amount of history that seems to be repeating itself.
    Confiscating property is only one of many coincidences.
    My best guess is that the means of producing wealth gets too far from the means of distributing it. But don' t go crying that the liberals are dong it. It's a struggle for power among th powerful.
     
  17. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Actually, your logic is flawed.

    1. Liberals are for bigger government. Conservatives -- especially Libertarians -- are the opposite.
    2. CF is a government entity and abuse by the government to get $$$.
    3. If anything, I see a correlation with a more recent empire, the Soviet one, that is screaming of what this is.

    PS: If US does goes the way of Rome, you and your ilk would be totally fucked, James. I am not sure if you are cheering for it, but the first people that go would be the "Union" crutch for the weak folk.

    Good luck, spunky.
     
  18. Kluge

    Kluge Observing your world for over 50 years

    Let's go back PS, 3, 2, 1 there.
    PS: Being partway through the history book only 500 years into the beginnings of Rome and still "BC" it's not clear to me exactly what you mean, but if you mean it was tough to be a reader and a thinker, yes, it takes a know-it-all demagogue to impress other know-it-all demagogues. Unions being an organizational and democratic process means you're quite mistaken about them if not about me also.

    3. Rome was flush with slave labor as they made slaves of the populations they conquered (if they weren't killed). The spoils of war were such that they distributed free corn ( in the city, not sometimes but every day, to everyone. Some lamented that the city was flooded with useless people because of the free corn. They tried to cut off the corn but an uprising got it restored. The writer says the rich had no reason to oppose the free corn because it didn't threaten their power, it reinforced it. Today we have energy & technology making life easier but it still comes from a virtually centralized source, be it government, corporations, or whatever.

    2. Specifics aren't what I had in mind by my post, more the general effects of financial sources & sinks. I will say that in some cases immediate intervention is beneficial. A minor DWI for example, has as much impact as a parking ticket in the short term. As it takes weeks to proceed through the court system there is little or no corrective impulse and a repeat offense is as simple as doing the same thing the same way with the same car etc. If the government takes the car it's a wake-up call. Doesn't mean they should keep it or profit from it.

    1. M'kay, so anarchist are conservatives, right? A big defense budget is smaller government, right? If you sad [religion 1] is for bigger government and [religion 2] is opposite, you'd be a bigot, so why do you think it's ok to define liberals and then knock them down? It's been one straw man argument after another around here and in the "conservative" media. Just one long effort to control the debate and pre-weaken the opponents. Here's an eye-opener for you, I'm not liberal, I'm not conservative, I'm a 56 year old who had older relatives in politics. I remember well my grandparents complaints that the new breed was ruining things i.e. going opposite to previous views. Take my word for it, the labels are bullshit. As proof I repeat, anarchists are conservatives? Big defense is small government? Think twice, at least twice.
     
  19. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    If it was clear to you, you wouldn't be... well, you. Try math next time as to what I've meant. Soviet Empire was when, Roman was when, which is more applicable to the US?

    Irrelevant Kluge mess, per usual. I don't see US in slavery.

    I didn't bother the rest as it went down to more irrelevancy. Nice to see I've touched a nerve though. Truth sucks, don't it?
     
  20. Kluge

    Kluge Observing your world for over 50 years

    I think it's time for Biker to 'fess up that he wrote a Robo-Ethics program but it's not perfect yet.
    That quote about politicians bribing people with their own money, couldn't it apply to any era, any way of taking "money", any way of co-opting the people to your side?
    I just said some of the history I'm reading seems to be repeating itself. I didn't say life is like your favorite gladiator movie.

    Sent using Tapatalk 2
     

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