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Church and Nuns

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by ethics, Jan 8, 2003.

  1. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Just as the Catholic Church has attempted to bury its unending child abuse scandal with a mountain of anti-gay rhetoric, here comes a new scandal that seems divinely designed to cast a shameful glare on that gambit. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch offers a <a href="http://stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/263AD85EB409BD2786256CA40076DBA4?OpenDocument&Headline=Nuns+as+sexual+victims+get+little+notice">scorching report</a> on a 1996 survey by the Jesuit St. Louis University which shows that a disturbingly large number of American nuns have been <a href="http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/01/05/1041566309310.html">sexually abused by their spiritual superiors.</a>

    <blockquote>One in eight nuns said she had been sexually exploited. Of those, nearly three of every four maintained she was victimized by a priest, nun or other religious person. The exploitation included everything from pressure for "dates" to requests for sexual favors to sexual intercourse. Two of every five nuns who said they had been sexually exploited said the exploitation involved some form of genital contact.</blockquote>

    Now how will the hierarchy manage to blame this on the homosexuals? No doubt they'll give it their best shot.' (Presumably they'll focus on the lesbian predators, while studiously ignoring the heterosexuals.)

    One nauseating aspect of this is the fact that the Church successfully buried the scandalous statistics instead of dealing with the victimizers.

    And in case you were wondering -- no, this is not just a problem with the <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1234268.stm">American Catholic church.</a>


    Disclaimer: Let me state that Very few Catholic priests are paedophiles or rapists. Just like Very few homosexuals are paedopholes.
  2. RRedline

    RRedline Veteran MMember

    This is, indeed, disturbing. One out of eight is A LOT of women! I bet statistically, priests are more likely to be sexual offenders than just about any other group of people. Considering that people look to them for moral guidance, it's a damned shame. I just consider myself very lucky that I was never targetted by any of my church leaders while growing up. I'm messed up enough as it is.

    Don't these women report these people to the authorities? It just goes to show you how easily they can manipulate people.
  3. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    This is nothing new.
    This is simply human nature. What's sad is the coverup over the decades. Since I'm not Catholic, I can't tell them how to run their church, and except for the criminal acts, don't have a public opinion on the matter.
  4. Coriolis

    Coriolis Bob's your uncle

    Well apparently they did, but they reported to their own "authorities" -- who ignored the problem.

    And this is what gets me:
    This went to Vatican, and they did nothing. Geewiz, what a surprize.

    So here's a few questions:

    <i>But just so there's no misconstruing my meaning, let's define <b>sexually deviant</b> behavior as only those who break the law either by molesting, raping, or issuing any form of sexual abuse over anyone, be it a child or a full grown woman or man. </i>

    <li>Why is there so much sexual deviancy in the Catholic Church?
    <li>Is it higher than in the general population, or other forms of Christian religion?
    <li>Is there a relationship between the vow of celibacy and the frequency of sexually deviant behavior in the Church?
    <li>Do more sexually deviant people (men, primarily) initially join the Church in hopes of ridding themselves of the their "moral infidelity", only to find the pickings, and the safe haven, too good to resist?

    Not that I expect answers, but are these not things the Catholic Church should be seriously looking into?
  5. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

  6. RRedline

    RRedline Veteran MMember

  7. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    I think you've answered your own question better than I would have.

    You can't fool or trick, or deny biological, ingrained, natural feelings for too long.
  8. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    But the shame of the whole situation is the church cannot be at fault for requiring celibacy. It's a built in safety system. If you could not remain celibate you did not love God enough. So the entire fault lies with the person. And the people passing judgment already either passed or failed the test. If failed they must be less forgiving to continue to hide the fact.
  9. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    This news, and the ongoing scandal in the Catholic church in America, are further proof in my mind of the ultimate futility of religions that seek to deny basic human instincts and desires, whether on issues of sex, diet, association, or whatever.
  10. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    What's interesting is priests weren't required to be celebate at first. It's a fairly "recent" change as far as church history is concerned.
  11. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    Pope Gregory VII mandated priestly celibacy to prevent the children of priests from inheriting church property and thus creating religious dynasties as property accumulated and passed from one generation to the next.
  12. Coriolis

    Coriolis Bob's your uncle

    Interesting! I didn't know that, and would never have suspected it, either.

    Not sure I follow. You don't think the Church is to blame for any of this, that it is entirely the blame of individuals? Or, that the Church "designed" this system to make sure the blame was put on the indiviual and not the Church? Or, am I completely missing the point altogether?
  13. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    I think ST is pointing out that one of the religious rationales for priests and nuns to remain celibate is to demonstrate their total love of God and Christ. Loving another person means you're not loving God enough to be a priest or a nun. At least, that's the concept.

    So, if a priest or nun has a relationship with another person, they have failed to love God enough and are, themselves, at fault.
  14. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    Whether purposely designed or not I believe the system places all the blame on the individual. Their lack of worth in the eyes of the church only drives the priest or nun further into doubting themselves enabling the deviant behavior. But the church is only asking for total love and only asking the person to deny every biological urge they have so how can they be at fault?

    If you have any doubt I am expressing disdain for the church's policies, lack of love of their servants, and complete disregard for the welfare of the smallest of their believers. Add to that the mercenary reason for the requirement in the first place and my disdain turns to contempt. Let's protect the wealth of the church, never mind the cost in human minds and lives.
  15. Coriolis

    Coriolis Bob's your uncle

    Thanks for the clarification... I share your distain and contempt.
  16. Advocat

    Advocat Viral Memes a Speciality Staff Member

    Several articles I was reading on the subject (written by Catholic church members), suggested one possible reason for pedophile priests; simply put, many priests are emotionally underdeveloped, remaining in an "infantile/immature emotional state" from having joined the church young, remaining celibate and deliberately avoiding intimate contact with the opposite sex.

    This leaves them more-or-less incapable of dealing with adults in a sexual situation... so that their options remain only children, other emotionally immature or vulnerable adults, or those they have power over, i.e. other clergy persons and nuns.

    So when the urges hit, they go after those people on a similar emotional level, or those that will give them a feeling a control and adequacy.

    It also suggests many pedophile priests go for young boys, not because they're gay, but because the last close relationship they can relate to is the friendships formed between young boys. Reliving what they know.

    As weird as this theory sounds, a similar one has been put forward to explain why many Japanese men have a "schoolgirl" fixation and/or control fetishes... because they spent so much time in schools fighting to be the best, that they didn't have time to develop emotionally... so are locked on the image of young girls they feel capable of controlling.
  17. Twingo

    Twingo Registered User

    Isn't the whole point of religeon to manipluate people? They get pretty good at it I guess, and play that game a little too much.
  18. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?


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