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Can we make Cali secede?

Discussion in 'Economy' started by ethics, Apr 4, 2018.

  1. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

  2. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

  3. Susan Addams

    Susan Addams Unregistered User

    Homegrown Californians except those in Orange County (south of Los Angeles) who are the main conservative hotbed in the state.

    There is no question in my mind that most Californians are whack jobs. It's interesting that more and more cities are taking legal objection to California becoming a "sanctuary state" and it appears this will be headed to the courts soon.

    California is also a beautiful place to live in (although expensive) and has fantastically good weather! As a mostly conservative person my biggest problem seems to be avoiding political discussion with the locals (I'm a transplant from Chicago). However I've found a surprising amount of conservatives here too. It seems that there are more conservatives than the state policy would indicate. I attribute this to divide and conquer, like if every voting district is 55% liberal 45% conservative. It just happens that in Orange County the conservatives have the upper hand.

    My roommate is Latino descent (born in California) and she's just as anti-illegal immigrant as any conservative I've met. She agrees with me that we should have as immigrants only those who have gone through the system legally.

    To answer the question posed in the topic title, which I'm sure was meant in jest, no, California cannot secede. The South tried that in the Civil War. Didn't work.

    The proper way to address the problem is through the legal system, even all the way to SCOTUS if necessary. It appears to me that the federal government has both might and right on its side, and I'll be surprised if California pulls it off in it's whack job desire to become an illegal alien sanctuary.

    I almost wonder if a pretty state with good weather either drives people nuts or attracts the nut jobs here.

    By the way, Cali is a city in Colombia.
     
  4. MemphisMark

    MemphisMark Old School Conservative

    We fought a Civil War because the Constitution has no mechanism for a State to leave the Union. So when the Southern States tried... you know the rest of the story.

    Remember a State of this Union is for all intents and purposes a Sovereign country. The States formed the federal government to regulate trade between the States and other nations, provide for the common defense of the States and so on. I think we build a wall around California and regulate the fuck out of everything that passes in or out. No goods from the other States in, no US citizens in, no California citizens out, no federal money in. We do our thing and let California do its thing until they come to their senses.
     
    ethics likes this.
  5. Susan Addams

    Susan Addams Unregistered User

    Mark your post is very naive for several reasons.

    First, yes there is a legitimate mechanism for a state to leave the union. I am right in principle, but you are right in practicality: it would never happen. Not in this life!

    There is a good analogy that Los Angeles' San Fernando Valley wanted to become an independent county and secede from Los Angeles County, several years ago. SFV is one of the more affluent areas of LA County, and there is always a net tax flow from SFV towards LA County. The problem is that the measure for SFV to secede required the majority approval of ALL the voters in LA County, not just SFV. The voters are not so stupid as to let a cash cow go independent.

    Look at the statistics of how big California would be if it were a separate country from USA. I forget the statistic but like maybe #10 or something. California has a huge economy and is a major part of the US economy. And for California to secede it would require cooperation from the rest of the states in USA. That just won't happen in this reality. USA won't let California go any more than LA County will let SFV go. For the same reasons.

    In theory California could secede from USA. In practice: not in this reality. I agree with your conclusion, just not how you got there. Yeah sure it could happen if everybody wanted it to. Problem is that most people vote their self interest and it would be disadvantageous to most of USA (outside CA) if CA left US.

    Not. Going. To. Happen.

    Personally I would like to see California broken up into 2 or more separate states. For an amusing read google the state of Jefferson.
     
  6. tke711

    tke711 Oink Oink Staff Member

    Mark is correct, there is no mechanism in the Constitution to leave the Union. Other than asking politely or doing so by force (both options would have a 100% fail rate), the Constitution would have to be amended for a State to secede.
     
    ethics likes this.
  7. Susan Addams

    Susan Addams Unregistered User

    Tke, Mark is right in practicality, I am right in theory, and that was the basis of my comments. We have two Constitutional mechanisms to change our Constitution. Either could be used to free California. I am right in theory.

    However I agree with Mark that it would never happen. You don't eat the cash cow, you don't kill the golden goose.

    California is something like the 12th largest economy if it were a separate nation. Nobody in US except whacko nuts would let CA go.
     
  8. tke711

    tke711 Oink Oink Staff Member

    In a crazy, hypothetical world, yes, it's theoretically possible if a change is made to our Constitution to allow secession first.
     
  9. Susan Addams

    Susan Addams Unregistered User

    Yes that is exactly what I meant. Except we don't need to change the Constitution. The means to allow a state its freedom are already there if you had enough votes.
     
  10. Arc

    Arc Full Member

    California's economy is the sixth largest in the world. One person in eight in the USA resides in California. Setting aside the desert areas California is geographically mostly very low population except in coastal regions.

    There are 58 counties in the state and most of them are Republican come election time but those that have a Republican majority have low populations compared to counties like those in the greater Los Angeles and Bay Area regions.

    Although there are 58 counties approximately half of the state's population reside in five of the counties.

    For quite some time now no Republican has held statewide position in California.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  11. tke711

    tke711 Oink Oink Staff Member

  12. Susan Addams

    Susan Addams Unregistered User

    Tke, I was just arguing a logical point. In theory it could happen. In practice it would never happen. USA would never let 1/6 of the world's economy separate (as Arc said, I didn't know the exact number). In theory it could happen, in the real world: never.

    Just like my example of SFV leaving LA County to become an independent city. SFV is a cash cow. Same for CA as part of US; cash cow. Won't happen.

    You mistook my argument, I was merely arguing theory. In the real world it would never happen. And in a practical sense, CA will never partition itself into more than one state. It has power in its size. CA won't give up that power.
     
  13. cmhbob

    cmhbob Did...did I do that? Staff Member

    That must have been added after 1869 because Mr. Lincoln thought there wasn't, and the Supreme Court in Texas v. White also ruled there wasn't. You're saying the mechanism exists, right now, without having to make any amendments?

    I think states should be able to secede. I'm just not clear on how existing law would allow it.
     
  14. Susan Addams

    Susan Addams Unregistered User

    Bob, we have a Constitutional means (two of them) in which we can change the Constitution. That is ALL I was referring to. In theory it is possible that if enough people wanted it, it could happen. In practicality it's more likely for a flying saucer filled with little green men to land on the White House lawn.

    And NO, I wasn't saying without amendments. I was referring to exactly that process that we have the ability to amend the constitution if we wanted to. Evidently the OP was disgusted with California and wanted it to leave the US. In practicality we are stuck with it, like it or not.

    Oh, and to add, I think the idea of US states leaving the US is a bad idea. I like the US just the way it is now. I don't want any new states, and I don't want any existing states to leave. I don't think either would benefit America. I do think that PR becoming a state would help PR but at the cost of negative impact on the US. I don't want any changes. I like the US the way it is now re: our existing 50 states.
     
  15. cmhbob

    cmhbob Did...did I do that? Staff Member

  16. Susan Addams

    Susan Addams Unregistered User

    There isn't going to be any secession. This is silly. Our Constitution protects our gun rights. Anybody who thinks our gun rights are at any more risk than chipping away should smoke crooked cigarettes.
     
  17. cmhbob

    cmhbob Did...did I do that? Staff Member

    Anyone who doesn't realize rights are being restricted even as we speak has been smoking crooked cigarettes.
     
    Arc and BigDeputyDog like this.
  18. Susan Addams

    Susan Addams Unregistered User

    Well I don't do drugs. I'm just confident they won't succeed. The pendulum swings. I think it's nearing the time where it will start swinging back.
     

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