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Bush's Faults

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by ethics, Jan 23, 2003.

  1. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Pros: Strong Foreign Policy team and advisors.

    Cons: Sucks on economy. I've seen the incentive plans he proposed and I am sorry, but they just miss the mark.

    I'd like to hear some honest, constructive criticism, of our current President. I am sure most, if not all, of you have some area in which the current President can improve upon.

    Let's hear it!
  2. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    He's very poor at communicating. I refer not to his obvious malapropisms, mumbles, and misstatements, which certainly don't help matters, but rather to his inability to articulate clear goals and methods for attaining those goals.

    Some will argue that he has none, an argument to which I do not subscribe.

    A President, above all else, needs to be able to create a vision and establish an agenda for progressive change. Key to doing so is communicating that vision in common terms and stating that agenda in ways that most people can readily identify with and relate to.

    President Bush has a vision, and his advisors are perfectly capable of managing the changes to achieve it. At times, you can catch glimpses of that vision in some of his off-the-cuff comments.

    Mostly, sadly, he's inarticulate about it.
  3. tke711

    tke711 Oink Oink Staff Member

    I think overall he's doing a decent job.

    I agree that his Foreign Policy team and advisor's are doing well.

    I disagree on the economy. Not because I think his plan will solve all the problems, but I think it's a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, there is NO Legislation that any President can pass to immediately stimulate an economy without have consequences and pissing half the population off. What are the ways the White House can stimulate the economy?

    1. Lower taxes to give citizens more money to spend and give business a reason to expand. However, people then complain about rising deficits.

    2. Increase spending to stimulate business. However, people then complain about rising deficits or increased taxes to cover these increases in spending.

    3. Lower taxes, and decrease spending. Right, like congress would let that happen. They all like spending our money too much. :)

    Unless the market improves on it's own (which is the only way it will improve), the President is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.

    I also agree with Stevent on his poor communication skills. I think he really does have a vision, but he's not able to express that effectively with the American Public.
  4. Violet1966

    Violet1966 Stand and Deliver Staff Member

    Well I like the guy but don't know too much about the specifics of what his camp is driving in him, and what he himself is doing that affects us. It's not so easy for the President to make all of his own descisions so we can't give credit or blame to them all the time.

    pros: He seems like an honest guy and one who has strong family values. Important to me. I think he is genuine in wanting to see a better United States/world and he genuinely seems to want to end this terrorism stuff that will give us all a better world to live in.

    cons: He doesn't seem like he is angry enough when he speaks in disgust of the way these terrorists are trying to ruin the world around us. I think he needs to take some anger lessons ;)
  5. Techie2000

    Techie2000 The crowd would sing:

    He can speak Spanish!
    The Dog
    Foreign Policy is okay.
    Experienced team of advisors

    Inability to speak English
    Makes everything personal (Saddam tried to kill my daddy!)
  6. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Totally agreed there as well.

    A person in that position needs to be articulate and when he gives us a speech, like he did on Sept 12th, it was well written and versed, but certainly didn't feel like it came from Bush's mind, but it did come from his heart.

    Same goes for the speech to the UN, which was a masterpiece.
  7. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    As a counterpoint, let me offer up Ronald Reagan, the "Great Communicator". Without getting into a pointless debate over his merits as past President, I believe most people will agree that he could talk an Eskimo into buying a freezer. That sort of skill is absolutely necessary.
  8. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    You speak of charisma. Clinton had it as well, but didn't utilize it to the benefit of this country as he could have.
  9. tke711

    tke711 Oink Oink Staff Member

    Agreed Stevent.

    And, as much as it pains me to say anything good about the man, I have to admit that President Clinton was also an excellent speaker.
  10. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    I abhor the amount of money taken form the average citizen in taxes. I don't mind the tax cuts, because I know as soon as a Democrat is elected, they will be increased again. I just wish someone, anyone, would cut spending. I also don't blame Bush for this economy. I've stated before that the economy isn't really dependant too much on who is in office. I have to be consistent with that view, so why blame Bush. After all, it wasn't Clinton or Bush's fault. The tech bubble burst, the accounting scandals, etc. really can't be blamed on either one as well. The stock market's now reacting to the possible war and the oil market, as can be expected.

    If you're sailing on a cruise ship and the galley runs out of mashed potatoes, yes the buck stops at the top, but the captain usually doesn't attend to everything under his watch, right? Maybe the potato supplier got caught in traffic on his way to the dock. Point is, the economy is so complex, and so many factors can cause stocks to go up or down, companies to hire or fire, inflation to go up or down, I think the easy way out is to blame it on one man, or even his administration.

    While I support his foreign policy, I would like to see his administration support and work for actively, the exile Saddam before going to war. I think it will accomplish much the same thing, without the nastiness of war.

    I have serious problems with Bush's failure to defend our own borders, again as I've voiced before. It's becoming ridiculous at this point. In my state if you are in an accident without insurance and you are a citizen, you face severe monetary penalties ad certain suspension of your driving privileges. If you are an illegal, you face nothing. They won't even turn the info on the illegal over to the the INS.
  11. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    Oh so true.
  12. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Another excellent point.

    I am getting tired of the term "porous borders."

    Folks, they are porous only because the US government, which President Bush is part of, WANTS them to be this way. If the President and/or Congress wanted to curb illegal immigration (read: safer borders no matter how you spell this issue) it would have been done.

    I have SERIOUS problems with Bush's attempt to make all illegals in this country LEGAL. What the hell does that say to more potential law breakers that want to come here illegally, for whatever purpose?
  13. Violet1966

    Violet1966 Stand and Deliver Staff Member

    Imagine the votes though after the fact??? And then the now legals would love the republican party and they would back it which would lead more minority groups to do the same. Seems strategic to me :)
  14. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    Hispanics now outnumber blacks. Violet makes an excellent point, which I've never considered: legalize the illegals, which are mostly hispanic, and the Republican Party can pretty much count on being in iron-clad control of the government for the next 100 years!
  15. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    I don't care for the strategy nor the result. It's wrong, immoral, and should be an outrage.
  16. Violet1966

    Violet1966 Stand and Deliver Staff Member

    I agree and although I like Bush for some things, this would one of those that I don't like. I feel the same as you do and I'm sure many others do too. Things should be done the right way and an illegal in the USA has broken the law and not gone through the processes that other citizens have had to go through. It's not right.

    I remember this discussion back in the old place and I was surprised to see how many people felt that illegals should have the same rights as we do if they are already here. The comments just blew me away. If I steal a loaf of bread to feed my children, I have to pay the consequences. Illegal is illegal across the board.
  17. cdw

    cdw Ahhhh...the good life.

    1. I think he's cute as a monkey :)
    2. I don't like his stand on the abortion issue and forcing that stand on the various organizations by refusing money if they "promote" abortion.
    3. I too believe he's a family man... didn't used to be, but is now.
    4. I don't think he's "honest" with us, but I do believe he thinks he's doing what has to be done. And, I kinda have to go with that at this time because he's privy to a hell of alot more information than I.
    5. I am concerned that he is a bit out of touch, in my view, with the common joe. He acts like he's in touch, but I don't think he is.

    And I NEVER saw Clinton as ANYTHING but a pig. Charismatic my ass.
  18. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    ethics, I'm not saying I agree with such a "strategy" if, in fact, that is the intent. I will admit to leaning toward favoring the legalization of the status of some current illegal aliens, depending on various factors. Immigration, after all, only makes nations stronger in the long run. But now that I think about Violet's comment, I can't support it at all.

    Even if it's not the Rep's intent to garner votes after the fact, that would be the actual result and I can't support something like that!

    Diabolically clever, if intended, I must admit....
  19. eakes

    eakes Registered User

    I think shutting down the borders completely would be an extremely difficult task. It would require a huge investment for some kind of fence and on-going manpower support to patrol and repair.
    I have always felt the best solution was a guest worker or green card program that allowed people (particularity from Mexico) to enter the US for purposes of employment.
    As I look around here in Texas, there would be no road paving crews, roofers and many other workers without the input from Mexico.
    As for legalizing currently illegals, I would need to see a specific proposal before giving a yea or nay.
  20. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    We have many legal hispanic citizens and resident aliens in the U.S. They have made our country stronger. They also had to work for the right to live here. This issue touches on so may things. The southwest, especially California is experiencing severe housing and water shortages now. We can't support everyone crossing the border. We have little low income housing left in this state, it's all gone. The average rent is now over $1,200 for the smallest apartment in the southland. Why rent to a single person or young family for $500 when you can get $1,500 ($500 each) from three families for the same unit? I go out to inspect rental houses and find 20 - 25 people living there. New housing tracts are completed and are immediately put on water rationing! What's up with that? We need the housing but don't have the water, but we have to build them anyway because the demand is there.

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