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Blame the Bible

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by ethics, Apr 18, 2003.

  1. mikeky

    mikeky Member

    I agree with Basilio; sometimes there are problems with literal interpretation of particular passages of the Bible, especially the King James Version, which was more of a word for word translation of the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts available at the time. Knowledge of the traditions, history, and culture of the time can give insight into what those passages mean (or likely mean). It's not much different than how insight into another present-day culture is valuable when dealing with that culture.

    Does that mean one has to be intellectual to read and understand the passages? No. But just as those studying calculus can refer to the works of others, so can those studying passages refer to those that have studied the historical, cultural, and translational influence on these. I suppose one could ask why isn't every passage clear and infallible if from God without the need for additional references, but I'll defer that as too far off topic.
  2. Neo

    Neo Banned

    Original post edited/deleted by the author because he was obviously suffering from temporary insanity when he wrote it.
  3. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Follow Up...

    "The biblical passages involved not only encouraged the death penalty but required that it be imposed when another life is taken," Judge John J. Vigil said in his 33-page ruling. "The passages also directed jurors to take guidance from, and obey, the government. They left the jurors no discretion."


    Read the rest in Harlan death sentence thrown out
  4. FrankF

    FrankF #55170-054

    So why did a couple of members of the jury find it necessary to consult the Bible at all? They could not make up their own minds without being told what to do? The scumbag is clearly an animal-predator, not fit to live, and deserves death... thus guaranteeing he will not do it again.
  5. cdw

    cdw Ahhhh...the good life.

    I guess sometimes people need an excuse to do the right thing.
    "the bible made me do it"

    At least he's off the streets. I wonder what it's like for his father though. Must be devastating to a man who devoted his life to protecting the public only to have his son turn out to be one of those he's hunted down.
  6. Sacchiridites

    Sacchiridites Banned

    They were using the Old Testament.....ugh.
    Life sentence without parole....Hmmm. Yes, he'll live: by the tax dollars of so many other women who've been kidnapped and tortured, etc. 60% of the buying power in the U.S. economy by last figures I've seen. Couple of years ago.

    Life is not fair or nice. Let's all get together and play games and sing songs?

  7. joseftu

    joseftu ORIGINAL Pomp-Dumpster

    Matrix, I don't know how much of that is relevant, but very little of it is accurate. There is no "liberal" branch of Judaism (EDIT--actually, I think there is a "liberal" branch in the UK--but I've never heard of it in this country or in Israel).
    Orthodox is not "original" as Judaism is always open to change and interpretation. Sir J's explanation, while basically correct, is maybe a little misleading if you expect to compare Orthodox Judaism directly to Christian fundamentalism.
    There is no central authority, or governing "pope" of Judaism. It's all subject to argument. "Two Jews, three opinions."
    Have a look at http://www.jewfaq.org .

    And to Shiny...would you expect to be qualified to understand quantum physics, or molecular biology, or object-oriented programming without some study or background? You can understand the basics, but that's about it. Some things, like ogres or onions, have layers. You can get the surface with just a surface reading, but to go deeper, you need to actually study and learn some things first. You don't disagree with that, I know.
  8. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    No, I totally agree with you. I stand by my statement above, however. I am, of course, speaking of understanding the rules a god would have us live by. I am not speaking of understanding religions. That passesth all understanding.
  9. Neo

    Neo Banned

    When I said liberal I meant reform. Sorry.

    I never implied or attempted to compare Judaism to Christianity in any way.

    Judaism like all religions had a starting point or beginning and evolved. Today it has branches, Orothodox, Conservative, and Reform. In that context I stand by my statement that Orthodox Judaism, theologically, is the closest to what is most commonly thought of or referred to as the formal Old Testement religion. The Conservative branch when compared to Orthodox is liberal.

    As to why I mentioned the State of Israel and so on I haven't a clue. Not a fucking clue. It is so bad I can't even be embarrassed. You literally will never know how much it bothers me that I said it and more relevantly why. Worse, I know it will happen again although hopefully not frequently. But enough of that subject.

    Although I believe what I have written is essentially accurate although not comphrensive and is subject to various what ifs and assumptions, nevertheless, for this topic my credibility is obviously and deservedly shot thanks to my previous post.

    I am going to go to bed and hope tomorrow is a better day.
  10. joseftu

    joseftu ORIGINAL Pomp-Dumpster

    No need to feel so bad, Matrix.

    And if you like, after some rest, I really would like to understand what you were saying (or thought you were saying?)

    It's worth discussing (and fascinating to me) how non-Jews perceive Judaism. (I'm assuming, without evidence, that you're not Jewish). Orthodox Judaism is closer, I guess, to the earliest practices...but nothing since the destruction of the temple can really be all that close to the formal Old Testament religion. We don't have a Temple anymore, we don't have a priesthood, we don't have sacrifices, and so on.

    Most people (not you, I think) see Chasidism as being the most "original" of the orthodox Jewish observances...but Chasidism is really incredibly recent. And I don't even know if Chasidic Jews are a majority of the orthodox.

    Although...maybe this is all to far from the topic. Sorry.
  11. yazdzik

    yazdzik Veteran Member

    Dear J and friends,
    I am too dense as to figure out how to turn that topic into a thread, and, usually when I try to explore anything objectively, I open myself for accusations of being vile by those whose beliefs tolerate no objectification. It is nonetheless a really important topic, reagarding religion in general, as to how those who are culturally uninitiated view other faith systems.
    I can well imagine that, even were I to say not a word, my very presence in a bible belt high school would cause consternation.
    There was a series of books by well known persons about "Why I am a xxxxx"
    If joseftu, as a more respected member could initiate the thread on an academic basis, it would be well worth seeing how we view each other.
    I promise to stay out of it!

    All good wishes,
  12. IamZed

    IamZed ...

    Yaz, you are vile. Try this  out.
  13. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    I would love to view the thread on Judaism.
  14. joseftu

    joseftu ORIGINAL Pomp-Dumpster

  15. cdw

    cdw Ahhhh...the good life.

    The link isn't working. I won't be participating but I sure will be following along!
  16. joseftu

    joseftu ORIGINAL Pomp-Dumpster

    Oops. I'm stupid. Sorry!
    I fixed it.
  17. Neo

    Neo Banned

    I just wanted to add for the record that when I made the post to which you politely, cordially, and professionally responded to, my post was made with complete confusion and was full of irrelevant and and inaccurate statements. The reason for that was other than just being inattentive or careless on my part. But that doesn't change the fact I made the post. But I do want to clear up the record on the post by declaring temporary insanity and let everyone know I do not stand by the post although it is accurately quoted by joseftu who of course had no reason to suspect the circumstances I now speak about.

    I Just wanted to stick my comments here on the isse although I deleted or edited my original post quoted joseftu, the post he quote stilsl contains the original lunacy.

    My apologies to all and specifically to joseftu.

    Just to correct the record!

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