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Another (my) theory about the missing 777

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Greg, Mar 15, 2014.

  1. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    To summarize it, a 777 disappeared somewhere over the South China Sea and the story has been developing for a week. You've all been following it so I don't have a lot to add to what we know. It seems clear now that the jet disappeared due to deliberate intervention by a person or persons unknown, and that the sequence of various communications links shutting down over a period of 20-30 minutes followed by a little known engine instrumentation system telemetry link continuing to function for perhaps 4 hours after the disappearance.

    There is virtually no reasonable logical conclusion that can be drawn other than the aircraft disappeared because it was hijacked.

    Peripheral parts of the story indicate (from the telemetry) that the aircraft climbed above its maximum service ceiling (above the highest altitude that it can be safely operated at) for a period of time, then descended to perhaps 20,000 feet, traveled on a bit longer and eventually the engine telemetry disappeared, either switched off or perhaps the aircraft crashed or just simply nobody knows.

    Due to the high altitude and limitations of the emergency oxygen system the passengers are most likely dead. I'm somewhat informed in aviation because I'm a licensed (private) pilot and because I worked in the avionics industry for several years. General design constraints of all aircraft components have similar characteristics because they are all designed to ensure safety for passengers and crew, but also have to be efficient and affordable. For that reason I feel safe in stating that the oxygen supply is not limitless, and that it was likely designed to allow enough oxygen for a depressurized aircraft to descend to an altitude where humans can breathe, and a safety margin added just in case... It seems likely to me that the passengers asphyxiated during the period the aircraft was above the maximum safe altitude.

    So: I conclude that the aircraft was deliberately taken and the passengers are dead, and the aircraft itself is either destroyed or there is a small possibility that it was flown at low altitude to avoid radar tracking and safely landed at some airport controlled by the hijackers, and the crew either in on it or dead.

    Now here's the heart of my essay: But why???

    Nobody has claimed responsibility for the hijack, or if there are any claims they have not been released to the public and press.

    A Boeing 777 is worth approximately $500 million. The passengers might of been ransomed but as I speculated they are probably dead. Dead people aren't worth anything, not in real terms. Many of them were Chinese, and like the Chinese government gives a fuck about people? The 777 could be ransomed, maybe that was the idea. Maybe it is the idea. Maybe they were going to do that but fucked up and couldn't pull it off.

    But then I keep thinking... If you successfully hijacked a 777 and killed all the passengers and crew, and didn't intend to ransom the aircraft itself, then what good is it?

    I have just one horrible idea. Maybe it is parked somewhere in perfect running condition and all the bodies disposed of. Maybe the organization who has possession of the aircraft has further plans for it. Maybe they are somebody who has or will shortly have a nuclear bomb.

    Here is the scenario: They load the nuke aboard the 777, then take off with a fighter jet escort, all flying in stealth mode. (Radar doesn't work as well as most people think. Air traffic control keeps track of aircraft mostly by transponders, which are devices that magnify and bounce back radar signals. Turn off the transponder and you get what radar engineers call a "skin paint" which is the naked, much smaller radar return. You don't see anything at all at low altitudes. Could the hijacked aircraft loaded with a nuke evade notice long enough to reach proximity to a legitimate 777 flight, the fighter escort swiftly blow the legit 777 out of the sky, and then have the doppelganger 777 carrying the nuke take its place? And could the flight possibly have a destination of NYC???

    In this scenario the fake 777 flight would behave normally until final approach to an airport near NYC or near Washington D.C. and then suddenly veer off and before intercept fighters can be launched the fake 777 gets near enough to the seat of the US government and they detonate the nuke.

    Note that an air burst from an nuke can be much more effective than a ground detonation. A nuke detonated in that location (particularly if the aircraft is carrying certain materials to worsen the effects of an air burst) could render that portion of the US uninhabitable for decades, perhaps centuries. It would decapitate much of the US government and doubtlessly kill millions of Americans.

    Respectfully submitted,
  2. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    Just a small addendum I forgot in my OP:

    It is documented that the co-pilot allowed passengers (cute chicks) into the cockpit of an earlier flight (a month or two back?) and according to Fox News pictures are posted on the Internet.

    Who is to say that some more cute chicks showed up and the co-pilot again admitted them, only this time the cute chicks were trained to incapacitate the crew and allow a trained pilot to take over command of the aircraft?

    Was this a dry run for something more? Was it a failed run that will be repeated? Or is this 777 sitting in a secure hanger in a country that is hostile to the US?

    If another aircraft in this category disappears we will know it was a real run that failed. If Washington DC or New York City is vaporized by an air-burst nuclear detonation we will know it wasn't the dry run, but rather it was the successful run.
  3. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    More addendum, speaking as an avionics engineer:

    They know now the plane disappeared into the northwest... or the southwest... Huh? Why not one or the other? That's 90 degrees difference!

    Defining ping: it is a request for information to a remote terminal which upon reception replies with the requested data. The data requests were likely sent from geosynchronous satellites, those operating directly above the Earth's equator in 24 hour orbit. By calculation of the round trip timing engineers knowing the equipment response time can subtract that and divide the transit time over and back by two, thus determining the distance between the satellite and the aircraft. By combining the data from two geosynchronous satellites they could determine (from two observation points) both distances, but that leaves an ambiguity: was the remote device (the aircraft) north or south of the equator?????

    Without data other than from geosynchronous satellites there is an ambiguity that they know the coordinates of the aircraft except whether it's north latitude or south latitude.
  4. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    By the way, I'm calling this theory my "seized the 777 to use as a nuclear weapon delivery system for a rogue country/power that does not have the means to use conventional ICBMs to deliver nukes to the US" and/or a country who does have the ICBM potential but want's to give US a nuclear present without their fingerprints on it.

    Iran fits nicely into this scenario considering it is nearing nuclear capability and that Iran's weapons delivery systems are pitifully inadequate for weapons delivery onto US mainland soil. If Iran is involved and if the capture of the 777 succeeded then it will be many months or more before anything is discovered along this line since it appears that Iran has not yet joined the nuclear capable nations. I see no way that they will not eventually have nuclear capability, thanks to Obama's weak anti-Iran policies.

    US security experts claim that nukes have isotopic fingerprints that can identify where the "core" originated from. Emphasize the word claims.

    It is clear that the disappearance of the 777 involves some sort of malevolent human intervention to IMO about 97% certainty. Was it a dry run? Was it the real run but failed? Or is this a run that is still in play?

    Considering how far the situation has changed in the last week it boggles my mind what turns and twists this plot may take in the next week, weeks or months.
  5. rockotman

    rockotman Blown on the steel breeze

    I love a good conspiracy theory...

    This one is even better:
    (for the TL;DR crowd... the US did it and is hiding the plane in Diego Garcia...)
  6. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    I too find this highly suspicious, particularly considering that Diego Garcia mows my lawn every Friday afternoon. Beginning next week I will keep him and his landscaping assault team under video surveillance. I will make particular note if he gets anywhere near my recycle container, considering that I don't recycle and in fact I've found that nobody ever looks in your recycle container if you never put it in the street, so that is where I store my vast wealth in the form of bundles of $100 bills. I mean, think about it, if somebody is robbing or burglarizing you would they ever look in your recycle container?

    Any interested parties may request the URL to the live video feed via PM. Diego is obviously a dangerous international terrorist and as a loyal US citizen I'm willing to do my part to protect America!
    rockotman likes this.
  7. rockotman

    rockotman Blown on the steel breeze

    I don't know about Diego, but I know Jerry Garcia was very good with "mowing the grass".
  8. cmhbob

    cmhbob Did...did I do that? Staff Member

    So an aviation hobbyist in Ohio came up with an interesting theory: MH370 "shadowed" SIA68 after it went dark, then landed on one of the many runways in range.


    If it worked, one has to wonder if it could work as a weapon delivery plan as well.
  9. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    A nugget regarding wake turbulence:

    2.4.4 Vertical Motion of the Wake
    The wake of an aircraft has behavioral characteristics
    which can help the pilot visualize the
    wake location and thereby take avoidance
    precautions. The initial descent rate of the
    wake is adequately described by classical
    theory; the descent rate is determined by the
    weight, flight speed and wingspan of the generating
    aircraft. Generally, vortices descend
    at the initial rate of about 300 to 500 feet per
    minute for about 30 seconds. The descent rate
    decreases and eventually approaches zero at
    between 500 and 900 feet below the flightpath.
    Flying at or above the flightpath provides the
    best method for avoidance. Maintaining a
    vertical separation of at least 1000 feet when
    crossing below the preceding aircraft may be
    considered safe. This vertical motion is illustrated
    in Figure 2.4-10.

    For those inclined to learn more, visit: https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/training/media/wake/04SEC2.PDF
  10. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Awww man, don't spoil it. 99.99999% of the stuff being spewed on the news and other sites has made for great entertainment. :yellowlaugh:
  11. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    I know about the wake stuff. I have a private pilot certificate. They teach those of us who fly the little 2 and 4 seaters to stay the F away from the wake of big airliners, and that the wake drifts down behind them as it settles.

    I also know that unless I'm flying a Cessna 150/152 that you can't see shit behind you. A commercial airliner would never spot trailing fighters if they were flying dark, ECM on and transponders off.

    Another interesting theory, one put into practice when the Iranians captured one of our RPVs, if you can overwhelm the navigation signals (GPS, etc.) you can fake a plane (piloted or pilotness) into thinking it's somewhere else and manipulate it into following your faked signals.

    However they could not fake the basic instruments such as magnetic compass and air pressure driven altimeter and airspeed indicator.
  12. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    More theories fall. I had presumed the altitude data came from the engine instrument system pings from satellite telemetry. When I was in avionics I was working on electronic engine instrument systems. Airspeed, altitude, RPMs, various pressures in the turbine engine, fuel flow....... Altitude (air pressure) is very important. That would be one of the important data points if you had telemetry.

    Now I've heard on Fox News (Bill O'Reilly's show) that the altitude information came from Indonesian radar, the "skin paints" I referred to, basic radar returns unaugmented by transponder data.

    If the only altitude information we have is from raw radar returns from Indonesian radar then I have little faith in anything discussed related to altitude of the aircraft.

    Another interesting point, the aircraft was either taken over, or one or both pilots deviated from the norm, within 27 minutes after takeoff. According to O'Reilly, seems pretty short to have somebody in the passenger area take over the cockpit (as O'Reilly stated). Lends credence that one or both pilots were in on the plot.

    The real questions are (1) what was the plot? (2) who was in on it? and (3) is the plot still in play?
  13. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    I read airliners.net every day due to a fascination with airplanes. Check out post 77 in the 33rd thread on this subject. It is titled Sanity Check and does a very good job of discussing what we know and what we are guessing on the subject. The thread is titled MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33
  14. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    Vladimir Putin did it.

    No, seriously, the factoids are breeding more factoids now out to the Nth generation. In the first or few days facts seemed to be increasing but now two weeks later (?) the facts and theories and factoids are interbreeding and the sum total of information IMO has now reached the stage where each day we know less and less, and in the end all we know for sure is that we don't know what happened to this aircraft or where it is. It seems to me that it is becoming increasingly likely we will never know anything more than it is gone forever.

    I had my fun speculating. Professional speculators have taken over. Good luck!
  15. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Put me down for Iran.
  16. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    Well Iran is what I said earlier in the topic, if indeed this is a plot. Iran will have nuke warheads probably before the end of the year, but they have no weapon delivery system that can reach DC or NYC. I believe they do have the means to shoot down a civilian aircraft such as a 777. Seems to me like they could fly their 777 lights off and radio silent into the proximity of an innocent 777 inbound for DC/NYC and shoot it down with the fighters, then have their doppelganger 777 take its place. Then explode the nuke a few thousand feet over DC/NYC. They'd probably load it up with as much cesium as possible, particularly ground up if they can, much the same thing as a pressure cooker bomb loaded with nails.

    No more US government, no more inhabiting the US Northeast for a few decades or centuries.

    Of course we might get pissed off and nuke Iran just for laughs and giggles, even if we have no proof. Do a favor for Israel and the rest of the ME. Pest control.

    I think it's possible it was a failed run for something like this. Or did it fail? ...........
  17. Allene

    Allene Registered User

    I think Iran would like even better to nuke Israel.
  18. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    Or Pakistan. They've got nukes.
  19. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    Another factoid: on Megyn Kelly's FNN show her expert says the plane began its turn before the co-pilot radioed in "goodnight." (The "goodnight" is a usual radio communications when an aircraft is handed off from one air traffic control center to another, changing frequency or entering an area with no VHF radio.)

    Whether the co-pilot was under duress.......

    Like I said earlier the factoids are breeding and multiplying. Another year and the aircraft disappearance factoids might be able to populate its own version of Wikipedia. Unless we find out what happened, which would ruin all the fun, and probably drop Internet traffic by about 3-5%.
  20. SixofNine

    SixofNine Jedi Sage Staff Member

    A startlingly simple theory:



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