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[Americas] Arizona House Backs Strict Immigration Bill

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by ethics, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Arizona House Backs Strict Immigration Bill

    [bl]The measure would create a new state misdemeanor crime of willful failure to complete or carry an alien registration document. It would allow officers to arrest immigrants unable to show documents proving they're legally in the country.
    The proposal also would ban so-called soft immigration policies at local police agencies. It would allow people to sue if they feel a government agency has adopted a policy that hinders the enforcement of illegal immigration laws.
    The provision is designed to target law enforcement policies that prevent officers from asking people about their immigration status, but opponents worry it will make victims and witnesses scared to work with police and prosecutors.[/bl]


    Dumb approach. I mean I am against illegals as the next guy, but what they are doing here is making the illegals some kind of animals that need to be put away. No, you don't go after people you go after the businesses that hire them. You penalize that and you don't have illegals coming to your state/city for work.

    This? This has too much baggage and will probably be bounced around in court before made illegal. http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/04/14/us/14arizona.html?_r=1&src=twt&twt=nytimes
     
  2. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    I've been saying that for a long time. Crack down on businesses that hire employees without proper documentation. Provide employers with an automated system that allows them to verify right to work right on the spot. Periodically analyze the database of who is working where to spot anomalies like same SSN working in both NYC and San Antonio for example, obviously two people using the same SSN and at least one of them fake. Fine employers who hire illegals anyway and repeat offenders get escalating fines.

    For the most part illegal aliens are here for the work. If they can't get the work they'll go somewhere else where there is work, presumably home. This won't get rid of all of them but it would get rid of the large majority of them.

    More can be sent home when they come into contact with the law enforcement system as perpetrators. Just deport the law breakers. Perhaps we can get a treaty with Mexico allowing us to sentence Mexican criminals and then send them to serve their prison terms in Mexico.

    Victims and witnesses should be left alone or it will create a boom market in shaking down and victimizing a group of people who cannot complain to law enforcement because to do so will get them deported. Most of the victims and witnesses will eventually go home anyway when they or those who support them cannot find work.
     
  3. jimeez

    jimeez Thread Killer

    And what happens when we lose the cheap labor pool provided by illegal immigrants? Are there enough legal immigrants to fill the void?
     
  4. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    I'm willing to take that medicine, ready to find out whether the treatment is worse than the disease. At least it would be fair and legal.

    At such time as becomes necessary the US can always admit legal immigrants through the legal path, and I'm sure Congress can adjust the quotas however necessary.
     
  5. jimeez

    jimeez Thread Killer

    Good point. I can get on board with that.
     
  6. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    Well, you can come up here to North Idaho and see all the citizens working at WalMart and McDonalds if you want. :)

    Note, this isn't a joke, we have every few illegals here and nearly every job is filled.
     
  7. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    And a serious question might be, what's the per capita income there? Is there a wide disparity, or is it narrower than what it was in California when you lived there? I'm not trying to trip you up or anything, but I'm curious why it is what it is up there.

    SM
     
  8. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    It can be wide. Coeur D' Alene has some nice mansions, celeb properties and such, mostly on the lake. Also lot's of yachts on the lake. I'm talking big money, just like LA or NYC. Spokane is a medium sized city of about 300,000 and surrounding towns about another 100k. But Northern Idaho has a lot of what you would term "rednecks". Well, it's what we term them, and we live here. No lie, at least 30% of people here wear some kind of camo clothing. 80% of all men wear baseball caps. Usually Camo baseball caps.

    So really two sets of people......

    A <strike>good</strike> great household income is about $35,000 per year, where comparable in California was about $90,000 (not great). On $35k you can live decent and many do so on a lot less amazingly.

    Housing is tons cheaper...the average car has about 180,000 miles on it. People drive them into the dirt here. Big retired community, people making their money selling houses in California and moving here the last ten years. They live great here and the following shows why...

    As far as low income work, this is what I've found. In California most if not all entry level jobs are at minimum wage. In N. Idaho all jobs start at about $8.50-$9.00. Why, because that's what has to be paid. On the other hand, most low level jobs a person will max out at $13-14. So more is paid to the entry level person but less is paid to the higher level employees (a lot less). But minimum wage here is not really a factor because no one pays it here. One person in a family usually makes about $14 per hour and the other makes $9. And a lot of part timers here. Go to some of the small towns in outlying areas, and someone living on social security is the norm. They probably never made more than that while they were working.

    I'm an auto mechanic now, make less than $10 per hour. The difference between myself and my coworkers is that's all they make, and they've been doing this, some of them for 10 years or so while I still have a decent income coming in from my business in LA.
     
  9. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

  10. jimeez

    jimeez Thread Killer

  11. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    I don't quite know what you mean Jimmy, unless you're scoffing.

    Obama: "Our failure to act responsible at the federal level will only open the door to irresponsibility by others. That includes, for example, the recent efforts in Arizona, which threaten to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans..."

    This quote seems a bit out of context to me although that's what he said (which my abbreviating may have changed the meaning), but it's the failure to act at the federal level regarding controlling our borders that drives states like Arizona to pass this law.

    Customs and Border Protection is not protecting our borders. Immigration and Naturalization Service is not preventing illegal immigration and is doing a piss poor job of deporting aliens. Internal Revenue Service takes no care about verifying the validity of Social Security numbers (allowing sometimes several or dozens of people to report earnings on the same SSN or using numbers that are not valid). Government at every level is making not much more than a token effort to enforce businesses to hire only people who have the legal right to work in the US.

    Maybe I have the missions mixed up a bit but the point is that the government is not enforcing the law. The only surprise about Arizona addressing the problem is that somebody finally has the balls to do it. Too bad that it may increase victimization of people who are in the country illegally. They wouldn't be at risk of becoming victims if they weren't violating US laws.

    If the federal government acted responsibly then there would be no need for Arizona to pass this law.
     
  12. Sierra Mike

    Sierra Mike The Dude Abides Staff Member

    But ICE is doing a swell job making legal immigration a total pain in the ass, though. :) I'm sure we all know people who have immigrated legally, and I'm sure none of them found the process to be either efficient or practical, not to mention painless.

    SM
     
  13. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    I have no objection to increasing the amount of immigrants allowed from Mexico and SA, as long as the government will take seriously border control, deportation of illegal aliens and enforcement against employers who hire illegals. My objection is to the uncontrolled flood of impromptu immigrants.

    If we truly need them then we should make provisions to allow them to immigrate legally. And I'm not talking about a blanket legalization of everybody who is here now. We already did that, and when it was done the government promised it would be a one time thing.
     
  14. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    Not content with fucking up their own state, California liberals want to fuck up Arizona too. Viva la raza.
     
  15. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    He should be fired for not knowing that the Constitution grants regulatory authority over interstate commerce to the federal government, and not to cities ;)
     
  16. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    The only thing Arizona gets from California is an excess of retirees.
     
  17. Greg

    Greg Full Member

    Maybe the retirees are the majority of those who can actually leave and tell the state government to "stuff it." (???) I'm curious, just how is it different from "excess of retirees" to move to Arizona, compared to excess of people who are tired of this bullshit and move to Idaho?

    Just exactly how do you feel better about yourself after leaving California for Idaho compared to the prototypical "retiree" who moves from California to Arizona?
     
  18. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    My point is Arizona gets nothing from California to be worried about a boycott. Nothing to get your panties up in a bunch, wasn't aimed at you.

    I think some peeps around here need some cool down pills.
     
  19. joseftu

    joseftu ORIGINAL Pomp-Dumpster

    Maybe this will help.
     
  20. mikepd

    mikepd Veteran Member

    Wrong sign on the car.

    It should say- I am illegal, pull me over.
     

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